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Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

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Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#281

Post by jacooper »

googlryas wrote: post #144
leephillips wrote: post #24

Good. US citizens should be, at least, disappointed that their government is so bad at protecting their privacy, that US law is so far behind the times. To those companies and people who find these EU decisions baffling or inconvenient: tough. If you had had respect for your users this would not be an issue. You would already not be spying on them. To website visitors: if you see a cookie banner, the site is asking p…

Pragmatically, to what extent do you believe the European laws have protected Europeans above and beyond how American laws have protected Americans? Basically, what class of badness are Americans subjected to due to behind-the-times data protection laws, that Europeans are protected from?

European laws are pushing to end Chat providers control over social interactions(which is something that shouldn't be done for profit any way) in the Digital markets act, which forces big apps to provide federation APIs.

The EU with the GDPR made an incentive to not use trackers, dont want that ugly tracker on your site ? Then stop selling data, that's why private analytics like Plausible and Umami have sprung to life. And also made it clear how much tracking is on the web.

There is also finally a movement to let the US host everything because really, the US isn't trust worthy.

So, the EU laws, gave better awareness about tracking, gave incentives to not use trackers, and is now working on improving the user experience by stopping the monopolization of social interactions.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#282

Post by peoplefromibiza »

nnq wrote: post #79
closewith wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bizarre idea. Should websites be allowed to opt out of anti-fraud legislation? Anti-money laundering? Human rights protections?

Yes? ...this was the original dream of non-national cyberspace and we almost had a hope at getting it. Then the second chance with web3 but this was also spoiled by people getting too greedy and too nasty too fast. A parallel anonymous-and-free-for-all-but-with-payments-included, smth. like Tor-but-powered-by-IPFSv9-and-Etherv7, will probably emerge in a couple decades done right after a couple failed iterations. Som…

> this was the original dream of non-national cyberspace

cyberspace was about freeing the people and the flow of information between people, not the corporations that silo the data in their data centers for ptofit.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#283

Post by wutbrodo »

clairity wrote: post #203
mmanfrin wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ah, the ad hominem, never a good sign for the proceeding argument. An ad hominem means using an insult as the basis for rejecting an argument , e.g. 'that is wrong because you are [attack]'. Saying an argument is naive and then explaining why is not an ad hominem.

arguments can have multiple lines of reasoning, one of which can be an ad hominem all by itself.

None of the lines of reasoning were an ad hominem. From your other comment[1], it seems like you think "ad hominem" just means "being rude to someone". I recommend reading the GP comment's description of ad hominem again: it means making a logical argument that depends on the speaker's personal characteristics.

"You're European, so your argument is biased and wrong" is an ad hominem. "Your argument is naive, here's why I think that" is not. The latter is logically downstream of the argument, while the former is upstream.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31854644

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#284

Post by lovich »

clairity wrote: post #270
lovich wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A car has multiple parts, but it’s still difficult to use if you only use/look at each one separately

if you look carefully, the 3 sentences are disconnected. they don’t form a line of reasoning. if it had been starter, engine, and transmission, maybe you’d have a point, but instead it’s corroded battery, door handle, and tailpipe.

I looked at it carefully, and I’m not seeing what you’re seeing unfortunately. I interpreted the naive comment as a separate summary of their opinion, and then the rest of the paragraph was the supporting explanation. He didn’t dismiss the idea because it was naive, it’s the reason it is naive is why he was saying it wouldn’t work

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#285

Post by jacquesm »

itronitron wrote: post #229
abarwick wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just naive. Government offices/agencies are so tightly coupled with packages like office 365 that forcefully separating them would require home built solutions which would always be terrible, less secure, and more expensive to the tax payer. There’s a lot of good these products can provide, granted they are properly audited and have high security requirements.

Most developed countries have several offices/agencies that already run 'home built' solutions, they just don't get talked about much.

They get talked about incessantly at the local Microsoft HQ.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#286

Post by jeroenhd »

AdriaanvRossum wrote: post #278

Regarding forbidden countries, it’s not forbidden in the Netherlands, yet. They will announce a verdict in a form of a report by the end of 2022 [1]. To give people an option and pink something else over Google Analytics, I have built an alternative, Simple Analytics [2]. It doesn’t use cookies or any form of tracking and you get still the useful data that 80% of the website owners need. [1] https://autoriteitpersoon…

Worth mentioning that DPAs tend to work together to prevent conflicting laws across the EU. Following Austrian, French, and now Italian rulings, it's almost guaranteed that the Dutch authority will come to the same conclusion.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#287

Post by wutbrodo »

Noughmad wrote: post #173
majormajor wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How far does "separating corporate interests from governmental ones" go? Can the government purchase a car? Hire a private corporation to build a road? Hire a consulting company to check the security of their (now-free-and-without-a-support-contract FOSS?) computer setup?

It's actually quite simple. The government can buy things services from specific providers, but it cannot force you to buy services from specific providers. In other words, it can buy BMWs for government use, but it cannot say "you have to buy a BMW to enter the municipal office". The same applies to websites. If a government website uses Google analytics, it is essentially requiring you to do business with a specifi…

Could you expand on the definition of "doing business with" an entity that you're using here? It seems quite non-standard.

If you open the door to a govt office, are you doing business with the company who installed the doors? If you use the toilet, are you doing business with the company that janitorial services are contracted out to?

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#288

Post by cscurmudgeon »

the_other wrote: post #267
tvink wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Creating jobs" to inefficiently solve a solved task is not a good thing, it is society burning it's tax income. It is only good to create jobs when the output of those jobs is increased value.

Slowing the flow of money out of the public purse and into a very small number of barely accountable global megacorps and private equity funds, whilst improving the employment prospects of the local population, sounds like it's worth the cost of repeat work. Also, nature loves a bit of redundancy. And capitalism loves competition. You can't have competition under a monopoly.

> . And capitalism loves competition. You can't have competition under a monopoly.

And the govt. is the biggest monopoly of all.

Somehow, restrictions against US firms are praised but if US imposes restrictions that is condemned (e.g. TikTok).

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#289

Post by throw827474737 »

abarwick wrote: post #123
clairity wrote: post #117

i’d support any legislation that booted google, fb, ms, adobe, salesforce, and a whole host of other surveillance tech companies from any and all levels of government. it’s literally as important as the separation of church and state. in fact, i’d love to see a constitutional amendment explicitly separating corporate interests from governmental ones, in all facets of civic life (e.g., campaign finance).

This is just naive. Government offices/agencies are so tightly coupled with packages like office 365 that forcefully separating them would require home built solutions which would always be terrible, less secure, and more expensive to the tax payer. There’s a lot of good these products can provide, granted they are properly audited and have high security requirements.

less secure? can it get worse than ms, outlook and active directory foo? they incepted their own industry around their unsecurity, lol.

terrible and more expensive is also a joke, but not as big, you still could got to ibm or oracle if you want to pay more for less, admitted

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