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Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#281

Post by slg »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #279
slg wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You edited "hateful groups are spewing vile..." out of the beginning of that quote which is important because even if people "exaggerate just how "anti" such stances are", there is still a difference between an anti stance and a hateful and vile stance. It isn't talking about opposing affirmative action, being against more immigration, or disagreeing with gay marriage. If you hear words like "Nazi", "White Nationalis…

>"If you hear words like "Nazi", "White Nationalist" "hateful", and "vile" only to immediately think "they are talking about me" that is a problem on your end." And there's the issue, front and center. If someone like me is worried that labels are getting thrown around in a wanton and haphazard manner, and such labels are used as justification for violence , why is it seen as a character flaw for me to worry that suc…

The character flaw isn't worrying about the labels being foisted wrongly upon someone. The character flaw is someone worrying that their personal politics can't clearly be distinguished as not being motivated by hate. Odds are that is a marker of a bad and unjust political opinion.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#282

Post by busterarm »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #256
busterarm wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You can work in tech and your work could be accurately described as indentured servitude. Tech if anything has a disproportionate amount of one specific kind: immigrants on employer specific visas.

Points for being kind-of true.

First off, let's establish that the oft-abused H1-Bs have salary minimums that put them in the top 5% of earners in the United States and in most cases the top 99.9(999)% of earners in their home countries.

Second, the visas don't prevent you from seeking employment through other employers, but at certain phases of your status here between visa, green card and resident it will reset your timetable.

Third, while the timetable for people from say India is absurdly long, from many other nations it is much much shorter.

Fourth, at all times visa holders have the loophole of getting married to get a better visa. Most people living somewhere for an extended period of time at least have the social skill to negotiate setting up a family (citation: the continued survival of the human race). Even if you marry another immigrant, both visa-holders have the convenience of opting to use the shortest schedule table between both nations. You'll often see, for example, Indian visa holders marrying Australian visa holders...The current schedule for new Indian applications is like 35+ years while the Australian schedule is ~5.

So yes, there are people in somewhat abusive situations. They stay in them because it's still an opportunity that puts them ahead of at least 95% of the world's population. Is that like indentured servitude or slavery? No, not really.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#283

Post by nathanaldensr »

slg wrote: post #281
BitwiseFool wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"If you hear words like "Nazi", "White Nationalist" "hateful", and "vile" only to immediately think "they are talking about me" that is a problem on your end." And there's the issue, front and center. If someone like me is worried that labels are getting thrown around in a wanton and haphazard manner, and such labels are used as justification for violence , why is it seen as a character flaw for me to worry that suc…

The character flaw isn't worrying about the labels being foisted wrongly upon someone. The character flaw is someone worrying that their personal politics can't clearly be distinguished as not being motivated by hate. Odds are that is a marker of a bad and unjust political opinion.

No, odds are that you see the world in black and white when that's not how people are.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#284

Post by busterarm »

andrepd wrote: post #257
busterarm wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked shitty jobs into my 30s before I landed on my career. Suck it up. Also you're missing the point. I didn't say anything about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. You DON'T have to work hard. I said just show up. Every day. On time. That's literally the one thing I've seen in life that differentiates people who are successful in life from those who aren't. And I know bank security guards who show up every…

I'm sorry, but your impression is wrong. The biggest correlate with income is not your punctuality, not hours worked, not productivity. It is this: your parents' income . This directly contradicts the (popular) view that we live in a meritocracy where all you have to do to succeed is work hard and be smart and apply yourself. > What I was saying was that commonly you'll find in unskilled labor jobs are people who don…

I never correlated income with punctuality.

I correlated lack of punctuality with overrepresentation in low-wage+low-skill jobs.

There are also plenty of high-social status, skilled, low-income jobs that are thoroughly dominated by the upper classes, like college professors, journalists, rank & file media/fashion, and orchestra musicians. Those jobs are not low-skill and people in them tend to show up to work.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#285

Post by busterarm »

adam_arthur wrote: post #150
bjornsing wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unskilled labor can have decent bargaining power if there's a shortage of unskilled labor. Not really, because that’s the definition of unskilled: it takes no special skills to do the job. So if there’s a shortage and wages go up dramatically then skilled labor can take its place. (The opposite is not possible/ advisable though.)

Being willing to do the job is a hurdle on its own. And there is variance between employee quality for "unskilled" labor too. E.g. think about customer facing roles and social skills/aptitude. Having all friendly/nice employees can drive greater revenue for a business. Chick fil a and costco are famous for hiring friendly employees, can have meaningful results for the business

And plenty of businesses have gone the other way and decided that the personal touch of being greeted by a human being provides less business value than a computer. E.g., McDonalds, Wendy's, your grocery store.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#286

Post by 71a54xd »

giantg2 wrote: post #268
71a54xd wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A level of performance / ability where you can interview, get a job and the salary you deem indicative of your skill. This varies from person to person obviously. For instance, for a while I had a CS degree and was solidly above average, but I didn't quite meet the bar because I sucked at leetcode and didn't have enough experience. So I accepted this, improved, and now have a higher paying job.

I'm not talking about interviews. I'm talking about performance evaluation at the company. The issues are with moving goal posts, discrinatory practices, and office politics.

The only place without moving goal-posts and / or younger incoming / better skilled talent is a government job.

If you don't want to have to care about improving / competing work as a paralegal, in retail or for the government.

Yes, it sucks but it's a reality of working in an industry as well paid as software engineering.

I'm convinced that sitting on your laurels even if you're well above average for say 4-5 years and not actively improving / being cognizant of others around you and their skillsets will always result in poor career outcomes.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#287

Post by damagednoob »

handsaway wrote: post #214
damagednoob wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Excess mortality in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin[1] * Great Chinese Famine[2] [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Sovi... . [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

* Bengal famine [1] * Boer concentration camps [2] * Various indigenous genocides [3] * Gaza and West Bank occupation [4] * 750k deaths a year due to long working hours [5] * Millions in the atlantic slave trade [6] * the 19th century cotton industry * the modern cotton industry [7] I can go on. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War_concentration_...…

You conflate Capitalism (developed during the Renaissance[1]) with Colonialism (around since the Iron Age[2]). How is point no 4 related to Capitalism? Where is the willing buyer/willing seller for point 6? Is your argument that there would be no work related deaths under communism? Who is forcing people to work in the cotton industry?

So yeah, come up with more examples.

[1]:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#History

[2]:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonies_in_antiquity

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#288

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

busterarm wrote: post #282
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can work in tech and your work could be accurately described as indentured servitude. Tech if anything has a disproportionate amount of one specific kind: immigrants on employer specific visas.

Points for being kind-of true. First off, let's establish that the oft-abused H1-Bs have salary minimums that put them in the top 5% of earners in the United States and in most cases the top 99.9(999)% of earners in their home countries. Second, the visas don't prevent you from seeking employment through other employers, but at certain phases of your status here between visa, green card and resident it will reset you…

Um, with polite response: a lot of these points are ethically dubious and at best say “they’re well paid, so they don’t really count”. At one point it says one can marry to get out of their indentured servitude, which… yikes, dude, imagine what a dangerous position that puts someone in if they can’t divorce a potentially dangerous relationship for fear of deportation.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#289

Post by busterarm »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #288
busterarm wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Points for being kind-of true. First off, let's establish that the oft-abused H1-Bs have salary minimums that put them in the top 5% of earners in the United States and in most cases the top 99.9(999)% of earners in their home countries. Second, the visas don't prevent you from seeking employment through other employers, but at certain phases of your status here between visa, green card and resident it will reset you…

Um, with polite response: a lot of these points are ethically dubious and at best say “they’re well paid, so they don’t really count”. At one point it says one can marry to get out of their indentured servitude, which… yikes, dude, imagine what a dangerous position that puts someone in if they can’t divorce a potentially dangerous relationship for fear of deportation.

Don't be ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of people are going to get married. More than 40% of them to someone they meet at work. That's just life.

Stop interpreting things the most hyperbolic way possible. Basic statistical facts paint quite a different picture than you are.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#290

Post by usrn »

native_samples wrote: post #149
gnicholas wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link to details about this?

It's worth remembering that the event that, uh, kickstarted their drive for unionization was the site's management banning a project that was raising money to support violence against conservatives (the actual physical kind, not words). The details are a bit fuzzy now but iirc some of the hard-left employees didn't like the ToS being enforced in that case, because whilst they accepted the project was calling for viol…

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