US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#281

Post by ptsneves » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:17 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #91

cpursley wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting downvoted by Americans with big fat paychecks in the Bay Area and other coastal cities on the energy self-sufficient North American content. Like it or not, Europe runs on Russian gas/oil/grain for the time being. The current crop of EU officials are probably not evil, but they are incredibly incompetent. By any object measure, the sanctions have filled the Russian Government's coffers and made Europe…

I downvoted them and I'm Polish - I see Ukrainian people on our streets every day, I hear their stories and their suffering all the time, my family is housing several refugees already. The stuff that Russia is doing to that country is making my blood boil. If anything, I'm incredibly upset that EU is not doing more to tighten the screw on Russia. If we are unwilling to send our militaries to fight Russia in Ukraine,…

Propaganda and fear mongering in Poland is so high that news are meaningless. The current political topic is that Germany would support Russia if Russia invaded Poland and would split it between. This is not a fringe thing it is a political topic of the day! In the mean time the current president looks like a Zeleski's bro, and PiS supporters chant for Jarek the same way you would chant for Putin.

Yes you hear Ukrainian/Russian in the street, but I am not sure you hear much gratitude. I certainly do not and I also live and travel in the country. I actually know of families hosting for 2 months and the people they hosted left in one day and never said anything back. Others had everything set here, like employment housing etc but went back to Ukraine or to Germany. The ones who went to Germany regret it as they are not pampered like in Poland. Hell even in euro vision song contest the polish got the taste of Ukrainian gratitude for the polish unconditional solidarity.

There are grateful Ukrainians but those already were in Poland got their life's easier now thankfully. The refugees could not care less about Poland. Actually historically the Ukrainians and Poles haves as bad blood as with the Russians or Germans.

As a foreigner what i see Poland needs, is to continue to get stronger economically so it can support a very advanced armed forces that could wipe the floor with the Russians. Poland needs to be needed and that is achieved by being an economic powerhouse on which the great powers depend. In the past Poland was left alone because it was not worth the trouble. Look at Taiwan, they sure know how to make themselves worth the trouble. The "honor" thing in polish culture is so self destructive: Throw everything away for honor. Let's keep growing and stronger, it will not be long before Russia is a nuisance.

The goal is to survive and to win, not to go down in history with honor.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#282

Post by sofixa » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:18 PM UTC

slim wrote: post #230

labrador wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point you have to consider whether this level of diplomatic incompetence is intentional What would you suggest as an alternative? Continue doing business as usual as if they're not murdering women and children?

Sign multilateral treaties declaring Ukraine won't join NATO ?

And what about Ukraine? Why should it's sovereignty be surrendered? Why are you blaming the victim of agression they didn't surrender? When else would you apply that same logic?

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#283

Post by hintymad » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:23 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #27

The US government has completely lost the ability to act strategically. Biden is currently in Saudi Arabia begging for more oil production, meanwhile he's blocking measures to increase North American oil production. So, instead of fixing our own problem with inflation, we're asking one of the worst regimes on Earth for help and enriching Russia with higher prices simultaneously. Even if you support greener energy, li…

I remember that on TV Trump was telling German chancellor that they should seek energy sources outside of Russia, and the media was mocking him for being populist or for being anti globalization (or for being paranoid as Russian would need buyers? I can't remember exactly). Is the orange man so bad that whatever he touches is a taboo? Is there any truth in what he does, and the executive branch can be less political but focus more on execution?

BTW, what's with all the politicians telling people to buy electrical cars so they don't have to worry about high energy price, as if they didn't know how expensive or unpractical those cars are for ordinary American families? I somehow find that stance insulting.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#284

Post by lawxls » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:23 PM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #257

lawxls wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Those who left have already returned, my coworkers never left, nor will I in near future. * Electronics can be imported via China and Kazakhstan. Thousands of kilometers of line of contact, plenty of T62's in good condition, why not give them to separatists? It is not as if Ukraine has anything better to offer. Cruise, ballistic missiles on the conveyor and in the air. Every day and night. * So? You are not plannin…

> It is not as if Ukraine has anything better to offer. They have 260+ captured Russian tanks, for one thing. Ukraine has asked supporting countries to instead send howitzers, anti-air guns/missiles, and multiple-launch rockets. By the end of this war Ukraine might end up with the largest tank army in Europe. https://oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenti... By most reports Ukraine (and Russia for that…

"By the end of this war Ukraine might end up with the largest tank army in Europe."

As Ukraine officials beg for help, and ask for half of US army armor 4th month into the war, you guys keep inhaling copium, dreaming in your beds about Russia "being destroyed" in Ukraine. I wouldn't expect anything less from western propaganda enjoyers tbh. Also taking oryx stats seriously, that's fun.

While some parts were definitely messy, and it really is a tradegy donbass and crimea situation had to be resolved this way, you'll soon be aware about the real situation in Ukraine, no matter how bad you want to believe the lies.

"The rate of Russian use of long-distance missiles dropped off dramatically" I offer you to check Ukrainian telegram channels, like "труха" for example (2mil followers) which will gladly tell you about this "dramatic decline".

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#285

Post by sofixa » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:25 PM UTC

klibertp wrote: post #223

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easily avoided! OK, now let's hear how it could be "easily avoided".

Wouldn't selling Crimea and recognizing the breakaway republics as countries work? It might be unacceptable, but it's definitely simple...

That's what they said in Munich in 1938 - just give Hitler the Sudetenland, that would work and satisfy him, he'll stop after that.

Appeasing dictators with delusions of grandeur simply doesn't work. It might buy you some time, but you better prepare during it.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#286

Post by cpursley » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:25 PM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #280

cpursley wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh really? Sounds like they're already on the outskirts of Moscow and don't actually need the $40 billion. Maybe we can get some of that back?

Ukraine is currently getting hammered by Russian artillery in Donbas, and suffering 100+ dead soldiers per day (as reportedly is Russia). They will only win with large amounts of ongoing foreign military and economic aid from committed partners. Why would they try to go to Moscow? They don’t have the logistical capacity to pull it off and it would be in nobody’s interest. Unlike Russia they don’t seem to be ruled by…

> They will only win with large amounts of foreign military and economic aid

Which systems exactly (models, etc)? And who exactly will field them?

> Ukraine will lose a bit more ground in Donbas before the Russian offensive culminates

Correct, that's one of their stated objectives

> The Russian military will run out of soldiers and equipment

They ran out of both two months ago, didn't you hear?

> Russian economy sputters

Any evidence that this is happening or will happen?

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#287

Post by alex239 » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:27 PM UTC

I see a lot of comments like "Putin will never attack Eastern European/Nordic countries". No. Some information about the main topic of internal Russian propaganda for the last month:

- Russia must return all lands that once belonged to it

- Russia must solve "the Ukrainian question"

- the west is our enemy, Russia have reliable allies in the east

- Putin is the reincarnation of Peter the Great (hello Finland and Sweden)

Any peace talks or "business as usual" will lead to a new war in a few years against Poland, Finland, etc. and more blood and refugees. This is how an authoritarian, fascist militaristic state works.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#288

Post by jltsiren » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:28 PM UTC

88840-8855 wrote: post #252

jltsiren wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is that the invasion of Ukraine doesn't make sense either. Russia expected a quick victorious "special operation", where the troops go in and the Ukrainian regime collapses with minimal fighting. Those expectations had no basis in reality, and Russia ended up in a major war it didn't want and was not prepared for. If the current Russian regime can start a war based on gross misjudgment, they can do it…

This is simply wrong as you dont take history and dont take future into account. History: brzezinski sums it up well. Russia has some weird imperialist interest in Ukraine. They have ZERO historical interests in the Nordics. Future: Finishing this war will take how long? Active conflict 1 year give or take + licking wounds 3 year + restoring economy and finding your way in the new world order 5 years + getting ready…

Specifically from a Finnish perspective:

Russia has a weird imperialist interest in Finland. Our history can largely be summarized as "trying to cope with living next to Russia, with varying degrees of success". From the dawn of history, until Napoleonic wars, there was an invasion from the east every generation or two. The invasions only stopped after Sweden lost Finland to Russia. After Finland gained independence, it took only 22 years before there was another invasion.

The Cold War and the decades after the collapse of the USSR were the exception. We had a lifetime of peace and prosperity by leaning to the West while maintaining good relations with Russia. But that is over for now, as Putin no longer cares about having good relations with anyone. Russia is big, it's next to us, and it has become unpredictable again. Dealing with that takes priority.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#289

Post by sofixa » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:29 PM UTC

db1234 wrote: post #10

The hypocrisy needs to be called out. Just a few months back US put a lot of pressure on countries like India to not buy Russian oil but now it's ready to buy Russian fertilizers? US media played along with multiple reports on India buying oil when Europe was buying in much larger quantities. Countries like India should buy cheap oil from where ever they can since inflation due to high oil prices can kill people. I a…

It's somewhat different.

Oil is, unfortunately, used everywhere. As you say, inflation due to high oil prices can kill people. And do you know what else can kill people? Starvation due to lower crop yields due to sudden lack of fertilisers. Ask Sri Lanka how their sudden ban on fertilisers went to see what happens when suddenly a country is forced to switch to fertiliserless agriculture.

The results from high fertiliser prices and lack of availability are drastically worse than high oil prices.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#290

Post by 5e92cb50239222b » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 8:29 PM UTC

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #276

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It hurts the Russian, but the Russian lived in the Soviet Union and survived the Crazy 90s. They can suffer way more than Westerns spoiled by prosperity. From the Mongol invasions to WWII to the Soviet Union, Russians have a lot of experience with collective suffering and deprivation.

Yes, but why? Why do these people have to suffer all the time? One reason I heard my Russian friends repeating is that "it's a bit country so we need a strong ruler to keep it together". But history shows this is not true. Also a federation of states like the USA would probably work better than the current setup where a short guy from Moscow is sending Buryat boys to die in a country they haven't seen before.

> a federation of states like the USA would probably work better than the current setup where a short guy from Moscow is sending Buryat boys to die in a country they haven't seen before

Excuse my ignorance… but how is it different from a tall guy from Connecticut sending, I dunno, Montana boys to die in a country they haven't even heard of? I'm just trying to understand the difference.