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Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

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Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#281

Post by kingkawn »

michaelmrose wrote: post #260
indecisive_user wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that simple. Something would have to replace all those plastic containers, and it might not be any better. Similar to banning plastic bags, we could replace all our disposable water bottles with higher quality *non* disposable plastic bottles. It would be slightly more expensive for companies to produce, but drastically cheaper than paying the proposed tax. Consumers may or may not treat them as disposable anyway…

The obvious alternative is glass. Although it might take a vary long time to degrade its less of a problem if it doesn't.

And glass is actually recyclable.

Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#282

Post by seoaeu »

carlmr wrote: post #218
seoaeu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether we should burn, recycle, or dump plastic into a landfill depends entirely on the relative amount of energy generated and CO2 emitted by those different options. Just because plastic and natural gas both are/come from hydrocarbons doesn’t mean that burning them produces anywhere near the same amount of emissions per MWh, or that the economics would be at all close. And if you are proposing the construction of…

>And if you are proposing the construction of new power plants to burn trash, your justification also has to explain why that would be preferable to building wind/solar instead An easy to grasp reason is that we still can't viably store energy for long enough periods for wind and solar alone to work. Also solar and wind might not work so well everywhere.

That’s a favorite talking point of climate deniers, but even once storage becomes a concern this proposal is only one of many possible options. What I’m pointing out is that this thread doesn’t actually contain any quantitative argument why burning trash is competitive with, let alone superior to, credible alternatives

Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#283

Post by xsmasher »

mrjin wrote: post #256
dimal wrote: post #135

> Recycling is the most obvious way to cut down on plastic waste. I would think that the most obvious solution is to not use a material that lasts thousands of years for disposable packaging that’s only needed for a few months. Seems like these types of “revolutionary” new processes to make recycling finally work come out every year, and yet nothing changes. I can’t imagine this will be any different. As long as it’s…

Agree. Also recycling plastics was mostly a lie. I used to think that small triangular icon with a number in it on plastic containers meant it can be recycled as it looks almost exactly the same with the recycling icon. It turned out I was too naive. Those icons were actually called Resin Identification Code or RIC, which actually have nothing to do with recycling but rather to make you think it can be recycled. The…

> Those icons were actually called Resin Identification Code or RIC, which actually have nothing to do with recycling

"have nothing to do with recycling" is too strong a statement; knowing what type of plastic it is helps with sorting. But you're right that having the triangle doesn't automatically mean it can or will be recycled.

Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#284

Post by ipaddr »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #254
ipaddr wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The area around Chernobyl is very green and many animals live there. Things survive..

> The area around Chernobyl is very green and many animals live there. Things survive.. Only if you're talking about Putin's Little Green Men , in which case most were last seen heading to their deathbed in Belarus after having exposed themselves to deadly levels radiation after occupying the area and trenching it, to the total dismay of local Ukrainians and Plant workers! Life does indeed find a way, but not in the…

No one said safe for humans for hundreds of years. But life survives..

Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#285

Post by phtrivier »

franga2000 wrote: post #247
phtrivier wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone will have to mandate the price of something. That sounds an awful lot like a "regulation", doesn't it ? Also, ironically, if you start regulating it (bannings plastics straws, disposable packaging, etc...) you'll get trashed on twitter _by_ the most ardent environmentalist, (and mocked by comedians) because it is "obviously not on the scale of the problem and just green washing that is not going to help anyth…

> this is what the EU is doing, and everyone is making fun of them Is everyone making fun of us, or is it just the americans? The ban on free plastic bags in stores had widespread support and worked out quite well. The only not strictly positive thing I've heard about the proposed plastic tax is that we need to use that money to actually do something like fund cleaning of the environment or developing sustainable mat…

The left in general is mocking the (mostly center to center-right) politicians who championed the ban of single-use plastic, explaining that its way too little an effort. Or that the whole industry should be banned yesterday.

Example : https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2019/12/14/la-major...

(They have the luxury of note exactly being in power, so not having to implement any of the groundbreading and radical changes they advocate.)

Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#286

Post by pschuegr »

wiz21c wrote: post #248
Cryptoclysm wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to reduce problems down to an exclusive-or choice, but in reality we need to use all our cards at the same time to look after our planet. Of course we should be reducing plastic waste, and at least where I live, I've seen a big push for the reduction of of single use plastics, both through legislation, savvy consumers and responsible supermarkets. While the biologists work on plastic-eating enzymes, product…

Dunno... In my country, you put your garbage in special bags on your front door once a week. They get collected. We have to sort our garbages: plastics and metals (mostly use to wrap food) in one bag, paper in another one, biological stuff (plants, unused parts of vegetables, etc) in another one and the rest in the yellow bag. Nice and cool (although I'm not sure how useful it is in the end). Now the funny thing is t…

Absolutely not a complaint or really directed at you, but random thought: I wish people would name the country instead of saying "in my country" - teach me something that is attached to a real place!

Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#287

Post by Auracle »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #217
Auracle wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sperm counts have been dropping for a long time (50%-60% over the past 50 years) without stopping, and plasticizers are the suspected culprit. It's incredible how many people need to do IVF now. I would argue that might be the most imminent threat but nobody seems to care.

> Sperm counts have been dropping for a long time Every couple of years this concern bubbles up. It seems to be established that sperm counts in males are going down. But I’ve yet to see substantial evidence about the possible causes. The effect of plasticisers e.g. were found in animal models usually with rather high doses. An increase of obesity over the last 50 years might also be a likely cause as obesity is link…

I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've seen the scientists are pretty firm in their belief it has nothing to do with obesity or other societal factors. Most of those are fairly easy to control for.

Apparently it's happening in dogs too: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160809095138.h...

But not necessarily in farm animals.

We know for a fact that phthalates have an effect on embryo development, and good luck avoiding those.

Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#288

Post by franga2000 »

phtrivier wrote: post #285
franga2000 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is what the EU is doing, and everyone is making fun of them Is everyone making fun of us, or is it just the americans? The ban on free plastic bags in stores had widespread support and worked out quite well. The only not strictly positive thing I've heard about the proposed plastic tax is that we need to use that money to actually do something like fund cleaning of the environment or developing sustainable mat…

The left in general is mocking the (mostly center to center-right) politicians who championed the ban of single-use plastic, explaining that its way too little an effort. Or that the whole industry should be banned yesterday. Example : https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2019/12/14/la-major... (They have the luxury of note exactly being in power, so not having to implement any of the groundbreading and radical c…

I see a big difference in mocking the policy vs mocking the people proposing it or the reason they're doing it. "Greenwashing" as I understand it is the act of doing something that doesn't help or helps the environment very little, but makes it look like you care and are trying to help it. This is a description of the person and process, not as much the policy itself.

I think most people would agree this is a weak policy and clearly done because its low-effort, agreeable and doesn't harm their corporate overlords much. So I can't say calling out the politicians isn't in order, but the policy itself is not actually bad. At least in my tiny corner of Europe, most of us in The Left (caps important) get this difference, but we do still have many idealists that don't, and they are usually the ones that get in the news. Maybe (I hope) it's the same over there.

// I don't have any translation software handy at the moment, so I couldn't read the article, sorry

Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#289

Post by fredrikholm »

TameAntelope wrote: post #278
Auracle wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone that had to go through IVF, that's a bit like celebrating cancer for reducing the population. Infertility is devastating for you and your relationship when you want to have children.

Infertility would be "none", and I didn't say that, I said "fewer". But I'm sorry you've put such an important emphasis on having kids in your relationship. The fact that you live in a society where that's reasonable is immensely sad, to me. You should feel whole without children, and the fact that you don't is the real tragedy, IMO.

Are you always this misanthropic and belittling?

Re: Plastic-eating enzyme could eliminate billions of tons of landfill waste

#290

Post by zackees »

bscphil wrote: post #134
zackees wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Also, the very premise that more CO2 is existential is contradicted by historical record: 250 million years ago earth was 15 degrees warmer than it is now and CO2 was a lot more abundant. Maybe this is just a joke that sailed over my head, but this is obviously false and doesn't mean anything of the sort. Existential for whom ? All you can definitely conclude is that the Earth won't explode if the climate increases…

> simply to prevent nuclear reactors from being built. How? For what purpose?

If a country has sufficient nuclear energy then they are immune from international energy politics.

Two, I see that the oligarch class is using global warming alarmism as the driving narrative to move everyone to a carbon credit system, where payouts go to an unaccountable transnational elite.

Ironically, I believe that once the incentive structure is in place, there will be institutional force to keep you buying carbon (offsets) credits… forever.

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