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EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

tutanota.com

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Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#281

Post by cryptonym »

weddpros wrote: post #220

Incest is the massive child abuse elephant in the room, and listening to our communications won't help those millions of children who suffer. Almost 7 million in France (1). I'm disgusted. I'm pretty sure when they say "one child in 5,6 or 7", it's really incest in 90-99% of cases, not some internet pedophile they claim to catch. They won't protect children with that law, because it's not the right law to fight child…

Basically 1 person out of ten? That's frightening. Statista says it's an estimation but all information about source and methodology is behind a paywall.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#282

Post by tluyben2 »

Macha wrote: post #179

As with the UK internet filters, the next step will be "Oh, so we have all this infrastructure already, we should extend it to other forms of illegal content, like piracy, DRM circumvention, etc"

Was there so much crying about the UK ones or was everyone obsessed with covid? During covid the uk spent a lot on similar (and I think worse) tech? Maybe the uk will license it?

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#283

Post by nix23 »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #235
nix23 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Government can't blackmail citizen Why not? >Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea? Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart.

> Why not? Because they can't, the moment they do, they'll be roasted for doing it. Those who tried, failed miserably. Justice system here is not run by governments, it's a completely separated power. > Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart. They control everything in the control rooms, which is not even the case oin EU d…

>Those who tried, failed miserably.

Ah you think the government sends an official person and start to blackmailing you?

>Justice system here is not run by governments, it's a completely separated power.

Oh c'mon, it's pretty naive to think like that.

>They control everything in the control rooms, which is not even the case oin EU democracies.

Ah yes the russian control room's who had not heard of that.

>which is not even the case oin EU democracies.

https://european-pirateparty.eu/chatcontrol-the-sequel-nobod...

https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/why-a-backdoor-is-a-security...

I really cant believe that you think the EU is so much better. But i see, the propaganda to implement that we are the good one's worked pretty well for you.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#284

Post by stjohnswarts »

marsRoverDev wrote: post #117
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

My understanding of this technology was it was usually a hash or fingerprint of some form of the material, to be compared against a database of hashes of known-bad material. I doubt EU countries have the infrastructure or budget to run models across everything, no?

I think you are underestimating the power of modern servers and GPUs for scanning this stuff. It's mind boggling.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#285

Post by Macha »

tluyben2 wrote: post #282
Macha wrote: post #179

As with the UK internet filters, the next step will be "Oh, so we have all this infrastructure already, we should extend it to other forms of illegal content, like piracy, DRM circumvention, etc"

Was there so much crying about the UK ones or was everyone obsessed with covid? During covid the uk spent a lot on similar (and I think worse) tech? Maybe the uk will license it?

The biggest outcry over the UK one was people's need to contact their ISP to be added to a list to access legal porn, which may have overshadowed the rest of the points.

This was a while before covid and has largely moved to just being accepted to my understanding.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#286

Post by Sakos »

londons_explore wrote: post #124
zosima wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, as this is not about child sex abuse anyway. The legislators know, from experience, that it's hard to argue against measures to protect children from predators, and so they are free to launch controversial and unacceptable measures. Once in place, it will be extended to other purposes. The same as always.

The thing is, with current 'privacy-protecting scanner' designs, the scanner is running on every end users device, and it would be fairly simple for an expert to dump out the list of things being looked for. That in turn makes such a system far less useful to intelligence services and authoritarian regimes. You don't want to tell your target that you're looking for them and which keywords not to use! I wonder if this…

The EU is constantly pushing to backdoor encryption and allow them unfettered access to communication in flight. Local CSAM is just a stepping stone.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#287

Post by peoplefromibiza »

hans_castorp wrote: post #276
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your government who wants to control you How exactly? In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946. What can they do with CSAM data? Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative. Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North…

> Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea? It certainly feels, as if they are trying to do that.

> It certainly feels, as if they are trying to do that.

Putin's been there for 22 years, Kim is there by rights of birth, in my country the PM has been there for 18 months and it looks like he's not going to last till the natural end of the legislature, in 2023.

His career as dictator 4 life looks pretty bleak from my POV.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#288

Post by tluyben2 »

Loic wrote: post #158

What is interesting is that running such software on my systems would breach all the NDA I have with my customers. As a company, it would not be possible to work anymore from the EU.

Going to guess some things are exempt. But yes, you are right. Our nda’s do not allow this either.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#289

Post by Sakos »

dangets wrote: post #89
OliverGilan wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me how anyone can be technologically literate and still think world governments should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this. I agree OP, most people in government are probably not inherently evil or malicious but why should anyone trust that these initiatives won’t be poorly implemented and cause massive collateral damage to innocent lives?

It is not just the people in government today that you need to worry about. It is anyone in the potential future also that may abuse these initiatives.

This is the biggest danger. These technologies are a boon to the potential future populist dictators of Europe. It starts with Orban. Who knows where it might end?

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#290

Post by sharken »

puszczyk wrote: post #38
sharken wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Most (all?) restrictions where imposed by the governments. Can you give us more details or some example on that “total control” the European Commission actually exercised.

The COVID pass is one such example, it has recently been extended until summer 2023.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022...

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