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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#281

Post by darkerside »

jackdawed wrote: post #168
davesque wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a balance to be struck with anything. On the one hand, teaching meditation outside of the context of religion might increase the likelihood of the purpose of the practice being misunderstood. On the other hand, any religious practice runs the risk of breeding a sense of self righteousness in the practitioner. With meditation and mindfulness, I've seen both. Also, I gotta say that language like "moral deficien…

Forgive me, English is not my first language so at times I struggle finding the right word for it. The pali word is "sila", the closest translation is morals. To be deficient in sila is to be deficient in morals, was my thought process. One example is do no harm, or avoid lying. If all your daily life is filled with causing harm, and deceit, then it will be filled with chaos and end up making it harder for you to mak…

Your message came through just fine for me in your first post. I wouldn't be too self conscious about it. But, as another poster pointed out, it's true that morals carry a religious connotation.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#282

Post by Chris2048 »

raymondh wrote: post #141
neltnerb wrote: post #22

True Story. I was newly moved to San Francisco and enrolled in a meditation course on literally loving-kindness (they were all mindfulness, this was a focused seminar). When I was on my way in someone was having a mental health emergency right outside the front door and looked to clearly need care. Not knowing who to call for this since I didn't live in the city, and definitely not wanting to call cops, I went in and…

Over my career, I've also seen some variations of this theme. A group of experienced, task-saturated senior auditors were pulled in from the field to attend an anti-stress seminar. During the guided meditation, an intense but non-destructive earthquake hit (in a high-rise building in downtown Los Angeles). It was the auditors who kept their wits and made clear decisions to calmly exit the structure. In marked contras…

> it is common to become intolerant of code that they used to consider perfectly readable

Before this tooling, my experience is that people are less tolerant of whatever isn't they prefer. If familiarity breeds readability, why not adopt a standard?

I also assume your characterisation is sensationalised to fit the comparison: all valid python is readable, but some can be read faster, and more importantly - errors are easier to spot, if its in a familiar format.

wrt the lifting scenario, I'd have to ask what "strong aversion" means; presumably good form is intended for situations that you repetitively lift weights, where long-term unbalanced lifting would cause damage. If that's not the case, maybe we should all lift with good form?

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#283

Post by emptysongglass »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #268
jackdawed wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me, English is not my first language so at times I struggle finding the right word for it. The pali word is "sila", the closest translation is morals. To be deficient in sila is to be deficient in morals, was my thought process. One example is do no harm, or avoid lying. If all your daily life is filled with causing harm, and deceit, then it will be filled with chaos and end up making it harder for you to mak…

Are rent controls a good policy or not? Are unrestricted free markets a good thing or not? Is killing a tiger good when the tiger is about to each your child? Morals are easy (and clear) once you don't have to deal with the real world.

That's not what the Buddha professed to teach. He taught the illness (dukkha) and the cure for that illness (the eightfold path). A basic framework of ethics girds the path. Almost no one would argue with them: no lying, cheating on your spouse, killing, etc.

A fundamental misapprehension of these teachings is what gets people wound up. The Buddha's teachings are not going to answer if rent controls are good policy or not because the world in which the laity live is a stew for the perpetuation of dukkha. Certainly not lying, cheating or killing are all good principles for living a life of less dukkha but given the Buddha's observations that samsara has no beginning or end spending your life on answering if rent controls are good policy or not is doomed to be unlasting and unsatisfactory.

The dhamma is not to be realized through discursive thinking alone. It must be directly experienced. The Buddha invites anyone to practice the teachings and discover for themselves if they are bullshit or not. So sit and examine or don't. Throwing the teachings under the bus because people want to pull out the part they like and dump the rest is wrong practice and the Buddha was painstakingly clear on this.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#284

Post by DoingIsLearning »

pqs wrote: post #280

I'm amazed by this paragraph: "He’s examined a technique known as ‘loving-kindness meditation’, for example, which is inspired by the Buddhist practice of Metta Bhavana. The practice involves contemplating people in your life – from friends and family to acquaintances and strangers – and cultivating good wishes and feelings of warmth for them." This is regular Christian prayer. We Catholics pray for other people, eve…

In Christian faith you normal pray/ask God to protect/provide/grant something to loved ones or a group of people, even if they are a large group.

Metta Bhavana is more meant as a far reaching 'radiating kindness' across all beings on earth, as in to visualize literally everyone and wished them all well with deep warmth.

The purpose is more to love equally those who you would previously classify as loved ones versus people you don't like or don't care about. Which obviously is impossible for a normal human being unless you completely allow for some sort of 'death of ego'.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#285

Post by rjh29 »

bschne wrote: post #17
rjh29 wrote: post #5

10-20 minutes/day was enough to teach me how to be 'mindful' on demand and mitigated a lot of mild ADHD-type problems in my life (impatience, anger, finding queues unbearable, high sensitivity to noise etc.). I spent a few months doing more, and it may not be related, but I became increasingly detached from the outside world, more self-absorbed and less motivated. Spent a lot of time just sitting and being content wi…

Mind sharing your routine? Dealing w/ similar issues and been meaning to try this sort of thing for a while after a few friends have recommended it…

10 minutes breath meditation each day (usually halfway through the work day). It doesn't matter how you do it so much as just being consistent for a long time.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#286

Post by rjh29 »

infogulch wrote: post #6
rjh29 wrote: post #5

10-20 minutes/day was enough to teach me how to be 'mindful' on demand and mitigated a lot of mild ADHD-type problems in my life (impatience, anger, finding queues unbearable, high sensitivity to noise etc.). I spent a few months doing more, and it may not be related, but I became increasingly detached from the outside world, more self-absorbed and less motivated. Spent a lot of time just sitting and being content wi…

A recent Dr K video tries to address this problem. I Meditated, Now I Don't Care Anymore - https://youtu.be/NnTLJtBr1zo

Thanks for the video, was interesting!

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#287

Post by pqs »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #284
pqs wrote: post #280

I'm amazed by this paragraph: "He’s examined a technique known as ‘loving-kindness meditation’, for example, which is inspired by the Buddhist practice of Metta Bhavana. The practice involves contemplating people in your life – from friends and family to acquaintances and strangers – and cultivating good wishes and feelings of warmth for them." This is regular Christian prayer. We Catholics pray for other people, eve…

In Christian faith you normal pray/ask God to protect/provide/grant something to loved ones or a group of people, even if they are a large group. Metta Bhavana is more meant as a far reaching 'radiating kindness' across all beings on earth, as in to visualize literally everyone and wished them all well with deep warmth. The purpose is more to love equally those who you would previously classify as loved ones versus p…

A Christian must try to imitate Christ (e.g. read the Thomas Kempis book), Christ is God, God loves everyone. We Christians must love every person on Earth, as Christ loves them, every single one of them, including the worst assassin. What's the difference?

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#288

Post by cyberpunk »

bowsamic wrote: post #273
cyberpunk wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like quite a fundamental misunderstanding. At least the kind of buddhism I practice, you never disconnect or “no longer feel guilt” or anything like this. Yeah, during Zazen we sit in equanimity with such feelings, but that’s very different to living that way all the time (which is impossible unless you’re some kind of psycho to begin with).

> but that’s very different to living that way all the time (which is impossible unless you’re some kind of psycho to begin with). If you are not trying to do zazen off the cushion you aren't putting in right effort. You should be aiming to manifest non-discriminating mind at all times

I disagree about right effort, but I’m just an amateur anyway so don’t listen to me :)

I don’t think this means you dont feel sad or angry or even jealous or anything else. It means, when you’re sad, just be sad. Don’t be too sad about being sad.. :)

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#289

Post by bowsamic »

cyberpunk wrote: post #288
bowsamic wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but that’s very different to living that way all the time (which is impossible unless you’re some kind of psycho to begin with). If you are not trying to do zazen off the cushion you aren't putting in right effort. You should be aiming to manifest non-discriminating mind at all times

I disagree about right effort, but I’m just an amateur anyway so don’t listen to me :) I don’t think this means you dont feel sad or angry or even jealous or anything else. It means, when you’re sad, just be sad. Don’t be too sad about being sad.. :)

You should always be practising.

As for the other stuff, it's about not identifying with your thoughts. Sad thoughts can still arise, you just don't grab it and say "that's me"

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#290

Post by mtberatwork »

_bfhp wrote: post #59
rygxqpbsngav wrote: post #36

Bound to happen. Why do you think Buddha has to leave all his wealth and kingdom before even starting the journey of mindfulness, leaving everything behind? The western adaptation is reducing meditation and mindfulness to a "tool" of relieving stress and better ones mental well-being. As easy as downloading an app and stay calm for few minutes. Unfortunately, this is not ideal. The traditional way is to seek a guru w…

What a comment. A feast for the inner reply guy: > The traditional way is to seek a guru "The" way? According to whom? Did you do it? > Some even leave everything and go to forest or mountains to practice for years. Except the Buddha and his stories explicitly advised against asceticism... > they should practice "Raja Yoga" which is also a spiritual path where one raises their spiritual plane Again, according to who?…

Not sure why you are being downvoted...you aren't wrong.

> Except the Buddha and his stories explicitly advised against asceticism...

Yup, the Middle Path.

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