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Please stop disabling zoom

matuzo.at

281–290 of 309 posts

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#281
post #2

It’s not just accessibility. I’ve last track of the number of times I’ve seen a mobile website with a table that extends past the right side of the viewport and zoom disabled. You can’t scroll, and you can’t zoom, so you can’t read the table.

> you can’t read the table

Which makes the table content inaccessible. It _is_ an accessibility issue.

Here's the definition I prefer, that does not focus on "disabilities" (which many people equate "accessibility" with):

> When we say a site is accessible, we mean that the site's content is available, and its functionality can be operated, by literally anyone.

https://web.dev/accessibility/

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#282
post #193
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Websites have that ability, both in CSS with types that are defined relative to the users set font size, and to detect it in JS. The platforms capability is not the problem here.

Hmm really? How do you do that? The `rem` and `em` CSS units do not reflect iOS font-size settings if this is what you mean (I don't know about Android).

Does Safari not have a UI for the user to set a font-size preference? Most browser do.

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#283
post #207
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us with disabilities, this is every situation of our lives all the time. The disadvantage of being disabled doesn’t come from the way that disability limits us as much as it comes from the countless ways it makes all the normal things people do slightly harder. Advocates fight to change these things not because it’s easy to do but because eliminating at least some of the hurdles in life makes our overall…

Being left handed is a mild version of this. I think it cultivates a healthy mindset though: At an early age, you learn that all assymetric tools were designed by idiots, so by kindergarten, you're already questioning everything. I suspect this is why lefties are drastically overrepresented in leadership positions, NASA, etc.

> At an early age, you learn that all assymetric tools were designed by idiots

Then you have learned the wrong lession. Assymetric tools might not be inclusive, but they are generally designed that way because it brings some kind of advantage.

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#284

Yes it is silly. The article actually ends with some useful tips: As a user, you can force allow zooming: In Firefox find the settings, select “Accessibility” and activate “Zoom on all website” In Chrome find the settings, select “Accessibility” and check “Force enable zoom”

Would be nice to have a standard accessibility header that the client could send to request these kinds of things, like "always enable zoom." In lieu of that, maybe consider having an "accessibility options" cta on first interaction.

Additional headers on every request should only be considered if there really is no other option.

For not disabling zoom the header does not even help because developers blindly copy pasting the line so that broken by default mobile browsers won't fuck up their responsive design are not going to handle that header.

Like many accessibility issues, zoom is not something that only benefits a subset of the popultaion. The solution is to no disable zoom for anyone except the 0.01% of pages (only very specific web apps really) where zoom does not make any sense AND interferes with some other behavior (e.g. multi touch).

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A simple rule: Minimum font size >= Age of oldest attendee

I think 20 years olds can read fonts smaller than 20 light years just fine. In facts, font that big may in fact be rather troublesome…

Depends, if those fonts are used in a galaxy far, far away the angular size will still be small.

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessibility is like performance, and security, and portability: You don't create the product, and then "spoon a little security in" right before shipping. You build it from the start as secure, with security as a first-class goal, and gate features on whether or not they are secure. Same for accessibility. You don't try to take an existing inaccessible project and wave a magic accessibility wand around it late in t…

I would argue that "usable by everyone" is an unreasonable goal which tends to result in catering to the lowest common denominator. For example, take buildings -- they typically have stairways, often as a fire escape route. However, stairways are not usable by everyone. Should we ensure that buildings have no stairways at all because there exist some people who can't use them? To apply this analogy to web accessibili…

> I would argue that "usable by everyone" is an unreasonable goal which tends to result in catering to the lowest common denominator.

Extremes are always unreasonable, the goal should be to support everyone that you reasonably can. Nobody is telling anyone to make their tools work for the blind deaf and mute quadruple amputee - but that does not mean that it should be acceptable to completely ignore the variations in capability of people wanting to use your product.

> To apply this analogy to web accessibility, consider WCAG 2.5.5 Target Size -- in order to pass, click targets must be 44px by 44px. Seems reasonable right? Try designing a desktop spreadsheet program with 44x44 click targets. It's basically impossible to do in a way that doesn't severely impair the design for people who can click smaller targets.

Blindly following guidelines leads to problems, yes. But you can achieve the goal of making the spreadsheed usable for someone who has trouble with small click targets: For a desktop program you should consider adding efficient and discoverable keyboard navigation so that noone needs to click anything. This will help power users as well as those with fine motion problems. In general, a program, unlike a physical staircase, is also something that can dynamically adapt to the needs of the user. For example you could make your spreadsheet zoomable. For a desktop program it could be OK to rely on third-party (or platform-provided) zoom utilities - just don't write your program in a way that makes those impossible to use.

For buildings such dynamic adaption is not as feasible and so we make compromises that require some people to rely on others for help in incommon situations. But even there we should do what we resonably can - for in many parts of the world public buildings do have wheelchair-accessible entrances these days, even if the emergency exit is a stair.

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#287
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what counts as needing to be accessible? A staircase isn't accessible, but still allowed. The accessibility is in an alternate implementation provided for those who need it. A phone call is an accessible alternative to a website. US law says that the phone call must be offered at the same price as the website, for those who need it.

> A staircase isn't accessible, but still allowed. The accessibility is in an alternate implementation provided for those who need it. Exactly this -- some things just aren't going to be for everyone. If we truly wanted to make buildings "accessible", all stairways, and even printed signage would have to be banned, as there exists someone who cannot benefit from it.

No, accessibility does not mean that everyone is knocked down to the same level. The staircase is not the feature, getting to different floors is - so it is acceptable to have a staircase for those that can and want to use it and an elevator for those that can't. Visual signage is acceptable as long as their a also navigation aids for the blind. And yes, whe do require these for many places.

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#288
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a good place to ask since there's a lot of web devs here: What is SO effing hard about drawing within the screen on web?! I can't tell you the number of times I've seen this issue. Just the other day I saw reddit's sign up form is totally broken on iOS, you have to swap between landscape/portrait multiple times and hope whatever garbage layout engine it uses redraws the button inside the screen.

> What is SO effing hard about drawing within the screen on web?! It’s because the web’s layout primitives don’t compose well. There’s no easy way to say “this is a full-width container and nothing inside it can go off screen.” As an obvious example, any descendant of that container can use fixed positioning and do whatever it wants. But there are subtler examples that are easier to fall victim to. The way to fix thi…

> There’s no easy way to say “this is a full-width container and nothing inside it can go off screen.”

  overflow: auto;
> As an obvious example, any descendant of that container can use fixed positioning and do whatever it wants.

Fixed positioning is you explicitly opting out of composability.

> The way to fix this is to built your own higher-level layout primitives and have conventions or tooling to enforce that you compose them only in approved ways.

No, the way to fix it is to look at your DOM and CSS instead of adding more abstractions with broken edge cases on top of your abstractions.

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#289
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because almost all web design happens on computer screens, not mobile devices. More important, all web designers show their bosses their creations on a big computer screen in a conference room--the bigger the better so everybody can go "oooh!" and "aaaah!" and the designer can get a big fat raise. I expect it's fairly rare for the employer of a web designer to give a shit what the site looks like on a ph…

What's strange about that is that a collection of old devices is very cheap. It's trivial to have a box and test them.

You don't need a collection of devices to test layout issues - just use e.g. Firefox's Responsive Design Mode [0] or another browser's equivalent and resize the viewport to whatever. Same applies for native applications - make your window resizable (it should be resizable anyway) and drag the corner around. Does the content behave and look how you'd expect it to? Good. Otherwise, fix it.

I see this "we can't afford to test on different resolutions" excuse with games that completely break for anything that is not 16:9 a lot. Don't target a fixed size. Don't target a fixed aspect ratio. Don't target a set of aspect ratios. Make your application responsive - you don't need different devices to test that responsiveness.

[0] https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/index....

Re: Please stop disabling zoom

#290
post #2

It’s not just accessibility. I’ve last track of the number of times I’ve seen a mobile website with a table that extends past the right side of the viewport and zoom disabled. You can’t scroll, and you can’t zoom, so you can’t read the table.

maximum-scale and user-scalable=no seem like browser mis-features. Perhaps the OP would have more success appealing to browser developers to follow Apple and Samsung’s lead, and get browsers to ignore them?

It's definitely always a mis-feature for websites. It can make sense for webapps in rare cases [0]. Well, disabling the pinch gesture makes sense for those, ideally the browser would still provide another way to change the zoom.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31274454

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