Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering • Hacker News Board

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#281

Post by Bedon292 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 1:22 PM UTC

hirvi74 wrote: post #127

chasd00 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right, over the last couple years i've noticed ADHD as becoming like a hobby mental disorder. Lot's of people claim it as like something to be proud of. If you really have ADHD then you know it's an absolute miserable experience and the right medication can change you're life. I wasn't properly diagnosed until my very early 30s and I bounced around different medicine until i found the right one and dos…

> I bounced around different medicine until i found the right one and dosage for me How did you know you hit the mark when you found it? I have been trying for the greater part of a decade, and I think there are only two possible explanations at this point: 1. I am one of the x% of people that medications do not work /as well/ for. 2. I have too high of expectations of the effects of the medications. Doctors have bee…

I am still dialing things in myself, but a few things I have noted so far. On one I was able to notice just over 8 hour after taking it every day a behavior change back to being on my phone and distracted. It meant something was working at least. And I have a few times, though definitely not regularly, where I can just sit there and be in the moment. Not thinking about work, not wanting to google some random thing I am curious about, nothing. Just there without distractions. Its rare, but I am hoping to get to that place more regularly. At least I think that's what I am supposed to be aiming for. Otherwise I am part of that #2 and have too high of expectations as well.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#282

Post by gilbetron » Mon, May 02, 2022, 1:23 PM UTC

freemint wrote: post #173

orangepurple wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daily 20 hour water (& salt) fasting reduced my desire to jump between tasks. Less scatter-brained too. My thoughts stay on rails longer. Didn't change my diet much; I don't eat many refined foods or carbs other than occasional bread. Years ago in college I was prescribed Adderall but it didn't make me focus more. It made me compulsively clean my apartment, masturbate, tweak out, and occasionally be extremely paranoi…

Wow 20 liters a day sounds like you need a lot executive function to make that work. Did you ever suffer from a lack of executive function (if you planned on doing stuff layed everything you need to do for the task, thought about it regularly and the taks just didn't get performed by you 3 times a week or more often)? Did that get better for you?

I read it as "20 hours fasting a day, only consuming water and salt during that 20 hours".

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#283

Post by Bedon292 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 1:31 PM UTC

tommica wrote: post #203

ehnto wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you are replying to is well aware that it's a bad thing, that's why they pointed it out.

Maybe they have a hard time paying attention to the text? Or does ADD affect reading? I'm not really sure how it works

It certainly can affect reading. As the other commenter stated, it can affect people in may different ways. It affects my reading differently based on the content. Ask me to read a textbook for a history class and I won't make it more than a few sentences without serious distraction. If I somehow actually "finish" reading a chapter I still won't be able to tell you much if any of the content. But give me a good sci-fi book and I will burn through it in a matter of hours. And good luck getting anything else out of me during that time.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#284

Post by lghh » Mon, May 02, 2022, 1:31 PM UTC

sph wrote: post #245

jrapdx3 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Growing up, ADHD was my biggest enemy in life and I didn't even realize it." That corresponds to what many ADHD adults have experienced. Based on what I've observed among ADHD patients, early response to treatment is a reason for optimism. Chances are ongoing treatment will support continued improvement for months if not years. And not just the patient but also the person's family and beyond. Differences in outcom…

One interesting idea I've read is that life long treatment might enable long lasting behavioural and even physical changes in the brain that makes functioning easier when unmedicated. Basically, meds set you on a healthy path that might lessen the effects of the disorder.

I can't speak to the neurology of it, but I could see that being the case. Forming habits & routines + making lifestyle changes are almost certainly easier when medicated for ADHD. If you engrain those changes into yourself long enough, I bet they would stick after you're off medication as well.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#285

Post by lghh » Mon, May 02, 2022, 1:33 PM UTC

di4na wrote: post #189

lghh wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand why you're asking. I have often felt that way myself and it's why I put off getting treatment for so long. I was worried I would just end up being some 30 year old tech dude addicted to adderall who didn't actually need it. I want to address those questions in others since getting a diagnosis was so helpful for me. I want to educate around it. The short answer is that I was diagnosed independently by 2 p…

As someone still struggling to get an appointment just to possibly validate a diagnosis but with all these symptoms. Thank you. I may not have adhd but at least it gives hope.

I know I'm telling you what you likely already know. But please please please please try to make the appointment. The only reason I was able to was because I created some sense of urgency to do it. Maybe have a friend that you make yourself accountable to? Tell them you owe them money if you don't make an appointment before X date and then more money if you don't go to the appointment?

If you need someone to talk though it with or if you have questions, my email is in my profile.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#286

Post by faeriechangling » Mon, May 02, 2022, 1:50 PM UTC

kanbara wrote: post #211

faeriechangling wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming? Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spe…

i don't understand any of the points you are trying to make. it's great you can cope, either you don't have ADHD or you found ways to deal with it, but others are not you. people with ADHD struggle greatly and in a diversity of ways. a lot of people can adapt and integrate in work/social life/school way better on medication, and studies have shown the concentration and focus have increased measured cognitive benefits…

I don't want to end the use of stimulant medications. Nor do I want to suggest there are not correlations between certain groups of people and those who benefit from drugs. Nor do I want to deny people have differences in neurotransmitter levels.

My issue is primarily with the jargon of calling such people "disordered". It's just such a crass and unnecessary subjective judgement. I reject the entire framing as an attack on my person and an insult to my face. Just because I can become hyper-smart by taking some drugs doesn't mean I'm disordered.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#287

Post by GavinMcG » Mon, May 02, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

galangalalgol wrote: post #161

GavinMcG wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That viewpoint makes the same strawman argument: > is part of the natural variation in how human brains work, and ... it's a category error to think of it as a malfunction to be repaired No! No one is saying that everyone at one end of the spectrum has a disorder. It is specifically not a category error because the term "disorder" is not applied based on the variability, but rather based on whether the variation mean…

But that exact same person in a different time, place, or career, might not be disrupted. I wasn't diagnosed until recently. The compounding of increasing demands at home with my family and at work, partially due to pandemic side effects lead to it. A hunter gatherer might actually gain benefits from it. Its like saying someone who is very tall has a disorder because it makes them a poor horse jockey, or a very short…

> their NBA career

No. Again: the diagnostic criteria are not this simple, and it's a strawman to argue against something that isn't happening. Diagnosis requires disruption across multiple areas of one's life—not just an inability to be successful at the highest competitive levels in a specific skill.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#288

Post by FollowingTheDao » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:06 PM UTC

faeriechangling wrote: post #205

themacguffinman wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind. That criteria sentence from the CDC websit…

If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming? Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spe…

> I am much more keen on the "ADHD as as social construct" theory than I am on the "ADHD as a medical condition" theory.

It is both a medical condition and a social construct. If you tweak one, it is not a problem anymore. The problem? No one provides anyone this choice.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#289

Post by FollowingTheDao » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:13 PM UTC

hirvi74 wrote: post #178

unmole wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are the people that lack disturbances in behavior, emotion, and cognition really that much better off? Yes.

I'll never know, but I have always been of the mentality that everyone has "something." Whether it has a diagnostic label or not. I guess, in a more terse sense -- life ain't easy for anyone.

> life ain't easy for anyone

I would gladly trade places with if you you honestly think this. I am homeless living with a mood disorder caused by an Autoimmune condition (Neuropsychiatric Lupus) that was misdiagnosed as Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder for the last 30 years of my life. I cannot work.

So I kind of understand how you came to have this point of view. Since anyone on the internet, and usually some of the most successful people, can put up a blog and complain about their very common phenotype to moan about how losing their gloves amounts to a disorder.

And any short amount of research on nutrition could probably fix their issue but instead they go to pharmaceuticals.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#290

Post by FollowingTheDao » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

astrange wrote: post #228

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All mental illnesses are physical conditions.

Personality disorders aren't physical conditions anymore than the number 2 is a physical object. They're maladaptive learned behaviors.

Maladaptive learned behaviors change the physical structure of the brain.