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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#281

Post by sonicggg »

Ensorceled wrote: post #78
sonicggg wrote: post #34

Nurses complain about their work conditions, but I don't understand them. They had this massive leverage during the pandemic to discuss improvements. Some people may say "Oh but it is illegal for nurses to strike in country X", but what will governments and companies realistically do if all nurses decide to stop, arrest everyone and let the health system collapse? Not a reasonable option. There's just something masoc…

It's more a lack of psychopathy in the profession. If nurses in Ontario had gone on strike two months ago, a lot of extra people would have died.

I know Ontario all too well. The same people that depend on nurses won't do more than needlessly beat pots and pans for their "heros". They do not even support them with their votes, which put in power the nefarious Conservative party. Who exactly are the nurses standing for? People that won't have their back.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#282

Post by legitster »

phil21 wrote: post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

> How doctors of all professions lost their professional agency to do-nothing administrators within a generation is quite puzzling and a bit terrifying to me

This should terrify everyone. Large segments of our society are failing us despite being stuffed to the gills with administrative staff that don't contribute much to productivity but rob professions of their independence. We're managing ourselves to death.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#283

Post by lghh »

yhoneycomb wrote: post #234
LewisVerstappen wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The healthcare system in the US clearly has nothing to do with free markets considering how unbelievably opaque and regulated everything is.

Actually, that’s exactly how unfettered “free market” capitalism operates. The end game is big companies end up controlling everything, including the regulations in order to tip the scales in their favor.

There is no such thing as free market capitalism. This is why the parent comment said "capitalism" and not "free markets". I assume that's what you meant by putting "free market" in quotes, I'm just making an explicit clarification.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#284

Post by AlphaOne1 »

travisjungroth wrote: post #212
pc86 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…

> * In stark contrast to asking questions and trying to understand. But I have family members who are the "look everything up and then try to tell my doctor how they're going to treat me" ilk and it's crazy. I still think it’s better than the other extreme of just showing up and trusting the professionals. That should work in theory, but my experience for myself and those around me is it’s incredibly ineffective. If…

I also think the complete implosion of family medicine has made this worse. In the past, you would keep the same family medicine doctor for decades and trust them. They in turn would know what your values and priorities are. Moreover, they would be able to guide you through difficult healthcare decisions that inevitably come up (cancer diagnosis, mental health etc.). We have lost the human connection aspect of medicine and those few physicians that are able to hang on to it are burning out due to the massive amounts of paperwork they need to accomplish. From the hospital perspective, (which many physicians now work for) good paperwork=good patient care. Paperwork is measurable. Relationships (other than in the abstract) are not.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#285

Post by weatherlite »

biohax2015 wrote: post #148
xhkkffbf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend who is an anesthesiologist said that he was retiring because the new machines were so good that no one wanted to pay for an anesthesiologist anymore. They were happy with a nurse. So you're right.

There are tons of openings for anesthesiologists paying 400k+. https://www.gaswork.com/search/Anesthesiologist/Job/All

That's quite pricey, sounds like a good candidate for automation :)

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#287

Post by umvi »

pc86 wrote: post #85
brightball wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.

Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…

> * I strongly believe that only physicians should be running hospitals.

Strong disagree. This same attitude pervades the military ("only pilots should run the air force") and really all it does is that lower representation of the interests of the other non-pilot 90% of your organization and put a pilot bias on every decision being made.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#288

Post by listless »

klyrs wrote: post #158
duxup wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that nurses were paid pretty well (generally speaking).

They're paid alright (generally speaking), but most devs wouldn't even consider a job at that rate. And the bar for entry is way higher: years of competitive and expensive schooling. And that's ignoring the other factors that GP mentioned. I don't get assaulted on a daily/weekly basis. I'm not getting coughed on by COVID-infected patients who want to kill me because they don't believe that COVID is real. I don't endu…

ShiftKey now has shifts listed for upwards of 80$+ per hour. This is probably the future we're looking at and way overdue.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#289

Post by hinkley »

pc86 wrote: post #85
brightball wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.

Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…

> insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less

That's not always the case. The reason I stopped writing mobile applications long ago was because the mobile carriers were doing exactly this, and not even providing enough paperwork for you to argue with them about it.

People like to lambast the Apple App Store for being greedy, but the fact of the matter is that people netted 3x as much off Apple that they did from the carriers. They are asking too much money now but their rates were absolutely defensible at the time. It's not a coincidence that we had a gold rush that started almost exactly when the App Store became a viable target.

One might ask what would happen if we joined the rest of the 1st World in providing medical care and marginalized private health insurance. Would it be a similar watershed moment?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#290

Post by legitster »

slantedview wrote: post #175
pc86 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthc…

> I strongly believe that only physicians should be running hospitals. More than that - hands on healthcare should not be a for profit industry. The need to make profit is fundamentally opposed to providing the best care. As the push for profit increases, more people get sick and die. This goes for long term care as well, which is facing a similar staffing crisis for similar reasons.

Your local hospital is likely a non-profit. Your health insurance company might even be a non-profit. But they don't do any better. Corporate profit motive doesn't seem to be at play here.
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