Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#281

Post by mancerayder » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

Barrera wrote: post #225

> Russian gas accounted for 55% of Germany's gas imports in 2021 and 40% of its gas imports in the first quarter of 2022, Reuters reported. The country has pledged to end the use of Russian gas by 2024, the Habeck said in a March 25 press release. Some in this thread have asked how Germany could be so foolish to tie its economic destiny to such a problematic country as Russia. The answer seems to be "one step at a ti…

How much blame can we lay on the anti nuclear power activists?

Or were there other reasons for not diving into that technology with two feet in front, rather than try to sunset it?

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#282

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #173

johannes1234321 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we're not talking about small cuts of leaves but some highly industrialized component it is not so easy as counting leaves and mixing them together. You can certainly analyse the flavors, but that won't tell you much on the production process for creating this with all the artificial components. However that could creates some creativity in place and create similar, but different (better? Worse? Who knows) product…

Why would you even want to copy Coca-Cola's "super secret syrup" when we already have in Europe several local Cola drinks that are better, and sometimes even healthier? Fanta is now nothing special either, just a sugary fizzy drink with orange flavoring that can be done better by other local companies. Coca Cola is just a branding and marketing juggernaut at this point, but their drinks themselves are easily replacea…

[deleted]

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#283

Post by flavius29663 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #221

danaris wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are they afraid that one morning NATO will invade Russia? From everything I've heard thus far, Putin is afraid that NATO will prevent him from reconstituting the USSR under him.

Well USSR is as dead as russian soldier somewhere in muddy Ukraine. There were good reasons why it broke down, and those reasons are still present. Its plain simple - nobody sane, moral and free wants to be in pact with russia. Who remains are dictators, bullies and murderers. Thank god Trump didn't succeed in effectively disbanding Nato. Imagine what Europe would look like now if that happened (as Bolton mentioned i…

> Thank god Trump didn't succeed in effectively disbanding Nato. Imagine what Europe would look like now if that happened (as Bolton mentioned in cca 2018).

This take bothers me, it's a sound bite repeated at nauseam with no backing what so ever. As a Romanian, I kept a close watch on US politics in Eastern Europe. Nothing that Trump did was pointing to disbanding NATO, on the contrary, he increased the US presence in Eastern Europe and was tougher on Putin than Obama was. Why do you think Russia-haters Poland began to like the US so much under Trump?

https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/01/12/poland-the-only-europ...

I feel like this is like a propaganda take: he forced countries to increase NATO spending, but somehow he wanted to weaken NATO?

He wanted Germany and Europe off of Russian gas, even blocking Nord Stream2 (upsetting the Germans), but somehow he was working for Putin? Btw, Biden unblocked NS2 in his first week in office, for no good reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5MJEMHZZsI

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#284

Post by randomopining » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:45 PM UTC

lobochrome wrote: post #259

mort96 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what's the contradiction here? Merkel's and Germany's international leadership can be good at the same time as Germany's dependency on Russia and China is problematic from a national security perspective. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.

Maybe. I guess you can celebrate her for her "international leadership" (what are we exactly celebrating by the way?) and at the same time acknowledge that she completely missed the interests of her constituency.

Yeah I don't see how she made any strategic decisions that set up the long term success for Germany and EU. She's remembered bigly internationally for letting all the migrants in.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#285

Post by nautilius » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:46 PM UTC

thriftwy wrote: post #280

throwaway5752 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be fair: this was a massive, strategic aim of the Russian state. Germany didn't randomly fall into this situation, there has been decades of influence, bribery, and espionage in Germany to develop that dependency. Kids may need to be reminded that Germany has only been reunified for 32 years and Berlin was divided from the USSR controlled East Germany by a physical wall. Russia is is so motivated to expand its…

> Kids may need to be reminded that Berlin was divided from the USSR controlled East Germany by a physical wall They should also definitely remember what they did to cause this.

What did the East Germans do that their fellows in the U.S./British/French occupied zones did not do?

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#286

Post by actionfromafar » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #272

lobochrome wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now consider that Germany has a huge dependency not only on the supply side to China but also on the demand side for machinery equipment and vehicles. In addition, we have a huge dependency on the US for national security. So we are dependent on Russia for Energy, on China for Manufacturing and industrial demand of our most important industrial sectors and are protected by the US from a National Security point of vie…

The problem with a country like Germany is that it's too big for Europe (as a continent), but too "small" for the world. Similar thing for France. Of course that the European Union was meant as a solution for this problem (and for the accompanying wars caused by it). I'd say that while the EU has been a great project from an economic pov from a political and geo-strategic pov this war in Ukraine is showing its huge w…

Upvoting but Russia most definitely cannot be self-sufficient. Unless you mean in a theoretical or future sense. Most of it exports are energy, and their industry depends heavily on western and chinese machinery and components.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#287

Post by LeanderK » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:54 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #272

lobochrome wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now consider that Germany has a huge dependency not only on the supply side to China but also on the demand side for machinery equipment and vehicles. In addition, we have a huge dependency on the US for national security. So we are dependent on Russia for Energy, on China for Manufacturing and industrial demand of our most important industrial sectors and are protected by the US from a National Security point of vie…

The problem with a country like Germany is that it's too big for Europe (as a continent), but too "small" for the world. Similar thing for France. Of course that the European Union was meant as a solution for this problem (and for the accompanying wars caused by it). I'd say that while the EU has been a great project from an economic pov from a political and geo-strategic pov this war in Ukraine is showing its huge w…

The current form of the EU is a stop-gap as long as not more power is transferred to the EU level. The EU is plagued by constant infighting and incoherent policies of the member states. But I think it's going better than some realise and a lot of the current projects of the EU are really firsts (a real industrial strategy with a focus on more autonomy in areas like chips and batteries). People except a lot from the EU and don't realise that in reality the legal bounds haven't really progressed since the 90s.

This conflict can again strengthen the european institutions and maybe result in some more reforms for the EU (and hopefully some democratic advances, although unlikely considering orban etc.).

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#288

Post by throwaway48375 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

johannes1234321 wrote: post #279

throwaway48375 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we don't have the technology to analyze chemical components of things? I still find that hard to believe.

You can analyze components, but that doesn't give you a process to recreate in scale. Many aromas and stuff are remainders of some Enzym processing things or some chemical reaction where the initial ingredient is dissolved. I myself spend some time in bread and a part of the taste of bread comes from my bacteria/yeast culture growing here at my place, feeding of stuff which is in the air at my place. If i go elsewher…

Yes I agree living things like bacteria/yeast cultures are hard to get right. In regards to your previous example you can get the blend of leaves right, but if the plants aren't genetically identical or even aren't grown in the exact same climate the end product may taste very different. When it comes to completely artificial flavorings though it would seem to me that it would be much simpler. For example isoamyl acetate is isoamyl acetate regardless of where or how it is produced.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#289

Post by OrvalWintermute » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #179

tazjin wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read, the contracts between Gazprom Germany and Gazprom Export (on the Russian side) do not have a fixed settlement currency. > This would have allowed them to require payments in Rubles instead of Euros "allowed" is a funny word - this situation is way past a point where cross-border contracts on either side hold any legal value. How are you going to hold anyone accountable for breach of contract?

Doesn’t the ITO (International Trade Organization) regulate international contacts with allowed and non allowed sanctions? I think Western states are currently tied to it, they can’t just impose “whatever” sanctions, and if we don’t, it would be legal for Russia to impose sanctions upon us. Currently Russia has no right to sanction us, so anything they do is a further breach of ITO, which further deepens their case.…

I'm concerned about the use of sanctions, and the individual targeting of wealthy individuals as being anathema to the Rule of Law, property rights, and free exchange.

The dollar is inflating at the same time the reserve currency status is threatened, and we Americans, via our allies, are appropriating the stuff of foreigners, seizing boats, currency, gold, and property. I think >400B has been seized at this point.

How long until we move from "Russia Bad!" to other groups, and start turning inward onto ourselves, seizing their property because they are politically unpopular?

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#290

Post by nix23 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 2:58 PM UTC

recuter wrote: post #181

nix23 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Okie Dokie for France. Yes why not? They take the risk, we pay them for. >eccentric far right character for additional excitement. Is the far right not happy making money?

Your plan is to sit in the dark while the radiation drifts across the imaginary line that is your border? Well, at least you're honest. Here I thought we were concerned about going green and the planet and such. > Is the far right not happy making money? You know Mr Putin could have just stayed on the throne collecting hundreds of billions a year doing nothing. Nord Stream 2 was weeks away from being flipped on, this…

>Your plan is to sit in the dark while the radiation drifts across the imaginary line that is your border?

You know how small Switzerland is? One accident and whole Switzerland could be polluted at once.

>You know Mr Putin could have just stayed

Not sure how that has anything todo with a far right french politician.

>Nord Stream 2 was weeks away from being flipped on

And would have been probably flipped off, after what happened.