Live data from Hacker News

Time to fork the FSF

larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com

281–290 of 340 posts

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#281
post #94

So it's time to fork the FSF because this guy does not agree with one comment RMS did? How is this not overreacting in the first place...

To be fair, the author does state it's a 'straw that broke the camel's back' scenario; the punctuation at the end of a long line of disliked behaviour, not just one comment.

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#282
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you do have a point, I disagree strongly with the way you've expressed it. There is no need for name-calling and personal attacks on this board. Calling someone a "nobody" and a "big mouth bozo" is uncalled for.

He is extremely agressive and out of place, calling for a split on a major organization he didn't help in any meaningful way and feeding the hate [sentiments of a particular faction of users ] against it. Also, > I’m really tired of having to make excuses for Stallman > when he goes off half-cocked like this, which is why I’m > no longer a FSF member.

> He is extremely agressive and out of place, calling for a split on a major organization he didn't help in any meaningful way

He was a member, and while his member number (5030) isn't low enough to argue that he helped found the movement, he did explain that he has advocated on behalf of the FSF for quite some time. I too think his post was a step too far in the wrong direction, but saying that regular supporters of the FSF, long time contributors and everyday members don't "help in any meaningful way" to the FSF is a tad bit disingenuous.

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#283
post #165

As I said already, today's hacker culture is crippled. So called "hackers" here have lost their principles, forgotten the value of freedom, worship the wrong idols. How come an entrepreneur be a hero much more important than any of the researchers who pioneered the modern computer technology? How can the man who worked against the values and principles of the hacker ethic be an idol for so many hackers? There is no r…

I see HN as a more mature version of http://www.reddit.com/r/technology, but with a heavy slant towards discussions about startups. In fact I frequently see the same articles referenced in both places.

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Gave me lots of extra time to pursue other interests. Honestly, I don't get this argument. I set a Linux installation up once, configure it how I like it, which takes a day or two in total, then I'm set for a few years. The administration on my system consists of running "pacman -Syu" every month or so then rebooting the system. So that's what, ~40 hours (high estimate at 1 hour per update to account for Murphy's La…

You raise a good point about other subjects. I think it is more about on going costs. Not initial costs. I don't think there is any platform that isn't a pain to setup. Mac OS is probably worse for setup since there is no apt-get and doesn't ship with as complete a set of standard software. Eg. Ubuntu 10.10 to 11.04 required me to answer questions about some config files that I know nothing about. So you have to baby…

>Mac OSX has Time Machine and APIs for in built autosave and versioning. It's not perfect but any sort of backup is good, as is making sure you do not lose your work. And the ability to restore accounts from Time Machine is pretty nice. Linux has ???

TimeVault - http://lifehacker.com/275399/timevault-time-machine-for-linu...

>Mac OSX has Spotlight. I can type in something like "Canon" and get all the pictures I took on my Canon cameras. Linux has ???

Strigi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strigi

I think that, feature-wise, Macs, Linux and Windows boxes are on about the same page. They all tend to steal ideas from each other and anything missing in the OS will be provided by a third party. I agree that Macs tend to 'just work' but this comes at the expense of only being able to work in a particular way. It's the efficiency vs robustness/flexibility tradeoff.

I've heard horror stories about laptop power management on Linux, it could definitely do with some work.

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#285
post #249
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first saw the post by RMS, I tried to hold back my initial desire to simply post "He's an asshole". I tried to take the emotion away from it but found that I couldn't. I couldn't find the right words so I posted nothing. You posted my exact feelings in a more intelligent way than I ever could have. RMS and people like him in the free software community is why I have never 100% committed to a free software way…

Really, RMS being a dick keeps you from using, developing, and supporting free software? Your level of support is not that great, then.

You're right, my level of support now is not as great as it could be. When I was initially introduced to the idea, I loved it. I still do. This is why I am still involved. But I do not like the zealotry behind it. You can believe in an ideal without casting out everyone who does not fall in line 100%.

I use and contribute to open source because I believe a lot of the best technology comes from it. I do not use it because I believe closed source is inherently evil.

RMS is a dick and I can accept that. What bothers me is the pass that he gets when he is a dick and the percentage of others who are like him in the free software community.

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#286
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newly minted hardware without a factory supported driver is a different kettle of fish but you can't really blame the Linux driver writers for that, they need information to work with and if manufacturers are not going to supply that info it needs to be painstakingly recovered, which is not always possible and almost always incomplete to some extent. Who cares? It doesn't work. When I buy an Apple laptop I know all t…

So you're after short-term profits instead of long-term gains? Supporting a locked-in system now strengthens that system, but supporting an open system may take longer to get to 'effortless', but you'll be able to do more down the track.

Unfounded assertion. Also, I'm mainly interested in the technology, not the license. I'll use whatever helps me get my job done the best and I'll pay good money for it too.

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#287
post #261
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first saw the post by RMS, I tried to hold back my initial desire to simply post "He's an asshole". I tried to take the emotion away from it but found that I couldn't. I couldn't find the right words so I posted nothing. You posted my exact feelings in a more intelligent way than I ever could have. RMS and people like him in the free software community is why I have never 100% committed to a free software way…

The fundamental difference between the ones like Apple/Microsoft and RMS/FSF is that the latter don't seek to be in control in the way the former do. RMS/FSF actually oppose to the idea and instead seek to educate people for the peoples own benefit.

I don't see choice in the message when it comes to the FSF. I do in other open source communities but not when it comes to the FSF. I see "use our alternative" but I do not see choice.

Choice would be to educate someone about the benefits of open source technology and then let them make the decision on what philosophy they would like to follow. Not, "your company choose to make your product closed source so you are now going down an evil path". I'm exaggerating a bit so I can illustrate my point. You can think that your philosophy is the right path without necessarily thinking that the other path is "evil".

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#288
post #230

Fuck you RMS. I have been and still am a staunch believer in open source, but when I read comments like this from the person who's motto once was that everybody writing software should contribute the source back to the community, not because it delivers better software (due to the more eyeballs resulting in fewer bugs), but because it results in moving software forward quickly by virtue of helping each other out, I a…

>If you think Steve's products hamper your freedom Try and explain how to boot a MacBookPro from USB stick to someone, and compare that to booting almost any other computer. Or explain how to dual boot a Mac with OSX and Linux, vs anything else with Windows and Linux.

Try and explain how to restore a MacBook from back-ups over the phone to a frantic parent who's just lost their hard drive.

I did that. It took two minutes. It worked flawlessly.

Sometimes to gain more command over your technology you have to give up some theoretical freedom, but that's freedom you'd never have been able to exercise.

An F-16 pilot would find the controls in a typical car so disappointing. Where's the lever to adjust the fuel/air mixture? The GPS waypoints? The brake bias dial? The air pressure indicator? The temperature of the tires? All of these things are theoretically important to driving, but they're not of any concern to someone simply trying to get from point A to point B.

That's all most people using computers are trying to do.

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#289
post #280
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood what you meant, I just found it ironic in the extreme that you chose to complain about poor communication by genuinely using poor communication, especially given the context of the thread. You've been commenting that Stallman should have deported himself better, and yet you break out with a comment like that yourself.

My argument doesn’t require me to lead by example. I’m some random commenter. And since you understood me perfectly well there doesn’t seem to be a problem in this specific case.

Understanding you perfectly well isn't the issue at point, it's the manner of how you present yourself - witness all the crap in this thread about RMS from those people who now accept that he didn't wish Jobs dead, but still say he should have been more polite about it. You don't have much of a credible leg to stand on if you don't engage in that which you request of others.

Edit: changed 'moral' to 'credible' to avoid semantic bickering about the loaded word.

Re: Time to fork the FSF

#290
post #289
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument doesn’t require me to lead by example. I’m some random commenter. And since you understood me perfectly well there doesn’t seem to be a problem in this specific case.

Understanding you perfectly well isn't the issue at point, it's the manner of how you present yourself - witness all the crap in this thread about RMS from those people who now accept that he didn't wish Jobs dead, but still say he should have been more polite about it. You don't have much of a credible leg to stand on if you don't engage in that which you request of others. Edit: changed 'moral' to 'credible' to avo…

Morals? I think I have been talking squarely about effective communication, not morals.
Post reply on HN