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MDN Plus

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Re: MDN Plus

#281

Post by Vinnl »

chatmasta wrote: post #195

Fundamentally, maintaining MDN is costly because of the rate of instability in rapidly changing browser APIs. Those APIs change quickly and inconsistently because they’re managed by a centralized cabal of a few corporations with a combined multiple trillions of dollars in market cap. And yet, somehow it’s Mozilla, the browser vendor with the least money, that ends up saddling the cost for MDN. Why is this? In general…

That's exactly why they set up Open Web Docs and this new funding stream, I think: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2022/03/mozilla-and-open-web-docs-...

Re: MDN Plus

#282

Post by Grumbledour »

Darmody wrote: post #233
quesera wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's documented to do so, and it works for me. What part isn't working for you?

It just doesn't revert to the old download. As I said, the first thing I did when I saw the release notes was checking how to go back to the old settings. I tried that on 2 computers, both using linux (Ubuntu and PopOS), without any luck. It doesn't ask me anymore what if I want to open the file or save it.

I walked into this trap yesterday as well. The reason being, they also changed many of my settings regarding application handling. While before that change, it was "Always ask" across the board, after the update, many file types were set to "Save File". So in addition to the about:config setting you should also check what is set for specific file types and revert that to "Always Ask".

This is the kind of change, if there were competition, I would have stopped using Firefox for good.

Re: MDN Plus

#283

Post by chakkepolja »

rtpg wrote: post #255
hbn wrote: post #37

I'm curious how often people are needing offline access to documentation for web development.

I use Zeal. You can have super fast internet, but having instant "pop up the python docs for this thing" along with searching while typing is a joy. It's much more useful for specific API docs rather than general "how do I do X" stuff but it's very nice. Helps that you don't have to deal with scrolling through stuff like web3schools.

Since top sites on Google results (GeeksForGeeks, W3Schools etc..) are generally considered suboptimal, what are some good sites for 'how do I do X?' style articles?

Re: MDN Plus

#284

Post by ronyfadel »

amatecha wrote: post #86

Nice, now can they finally stop taking money from Google? :) "The new search deal will ensure Google remains the default search engine provider inside the Firefox browser until 2023 at an estimated price tag of around $400 million to $450 million per year." "Mozilla's long-term plan is to build its own revenue streams from subscription-based services and reduce its dependence on the Google search deal" [0] https://ww…

Not even close. Even if they get 100,000 paying monthly users in the first year, that’s only $6-12M/yr.

Re: MDN Plus

#285

Post by subpixel »

codazoda wrote: post #148

Sailing is a long-time dream that I probably won't be able to realize in my lifetime. But, if I did ever go sailing, I would need something like parts of MDN downloaded. Doing computer work is what I love and I'm sure it's what I would use my spare time for. Clearly this has usefulness far beyond that niche case, but I love the idea that Mozilla has found a really useful thing to charge for. I hope that they can be s…

Just a note to assure you that while sailing you will spend all of your time maintaining the systems that keep the rigging and electricity in working order. Any time you have left over will be spent researching which other boat you should get.

Re: MDN Plus

#286

Post by matyasrichter »

subpixel wrote: post #75

There's something in the water at Mozilla that negatively effects all product decisions. Notifications and collections are features, not a product. A viable and attractive MDN product would be a subscription to all the layers above the existing docs and guides, combined with a major initiative to connect with experts to create course material and sell it as a part of the platform. MDN: what got you here won't get you…

> Notifications and collections are features, not a product.

What is a product other than a set of features? Especially in case of a paid tier on top of an existing free service.

Re: MDN Plus

#287

Post by cxr »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #275
jraph wrote: post #28

It seems fair enough. It won't prevent anyone from accessing the actual content and it probably makes it easy to justify paying something to MDN to employers. In practice, if you are not paying: - Bookmarks can most certainly easily replace the Collections feature - you can clone the MDN repository for having the documents offline - notifications could be computed from the commit log and the subscription probably mak…

The only thing missing from this announce is the promise that all proceeds go to MDN and nowhere else, like subsidizing a failing product or paying C-suite bonuses.

It's a wiki (at least it used to be). A lot of people, including me, spent a lot of time and effort building up the content on the site. Not for nothing—I got an intercontinental flight, a stay in a nice hotel, and a conference ticket in a new city—but many of the people who made the developer.mozilla.org content what it is are never going to see any of that money. The MDN staff, though, some of whom are almost certainly overcompensated despite project mismanagement and dubious choices on par with the judgment of Mozilla leadership itself, definitely will see some non-zero amount appear in their bank account every pay period.

For outsiders to show up with such strong opinions like yours, it feels... weird, at the very least.

Re: MDN Plus

#288

Post by cxr »

fckthisguy wrote: post #278
ComodoHacker wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing missing from this announce is the promise that all proceeds go to MDN and nowhere else, like subsidizing a failing product or paying C-suite bonuses.

Ring fencing funds could be a real issue for Mozilla. They desperately need new revenue streams to support their primary product (the Firefox browser) since it's non- revenue earning. I wouldn't mind these funds going towards Firefox, or even other products woth a little reluctance, but agree they shouldn't go towards other costs like bonuses or "operation costs".

Where in the world did you get these ideas?

> They desperately need new revenue streams to support their primary product (the Firefox browser)

No, they don't. The Corporation receives almost half a billion USD annually—over 2.5x what they were bringing in 10 years ago (when they were supporting 20+% of the world's Web browsing; for comparison, they're now at > since it's non- revenue earning

What? There's a reason why Firefox is Mozilla Corp's primary focus, you know—because it's one of the few things that does pay for itself (and then some—most of Mozilla's adventures are funded by revenue tied to Firefox).

Re: MDN Plus

#289

Post by subpixel »

matyasrichter wrote: post #286
subpixel wrote: post #75

There's something in the water at Mozilla that negatively effects all product decisions. Notifications and collections are features, not a product. A viable and attractive MDN product would be a subscription to all the layers above the existing docs and guides, combined with a major initiative to connect with experts to create course material and sell it as a part of the platform. MDN: what got you here won't get you…

> Notifications and collections are features, not a product. What is a product other than a set of features? Especially in case of a paid tier on top of an existing free service.

A paid tier would be a product if it granted you access to content that solves problems you can't get for free.

My take is this isn't a paid tier. It's paid features, e.g. notifications. That's not to say it provides no value, but that there is massive value being unrealized.

Re: MDN Plus

#290

Post by mstade »

Wait, so you mean to say I can pay $50 a year for high quality documentation that is eminently useful in my day to day work, and I get things like notifications when said content changes? And on top of that, I’ll be supporting free access to said content to those who might need it he most, like kids learning to program or rookies just starting their careers? AND it’s tax deductible? Pfft, shut up and take my moneys please!

I have no need for any of the stuff in the supporter plan but even at $100 a year this is a total bargain. I know I don’t have to pay for it, but with the amount of value I’ve gotten out of MDN over the years it’s a steAl. I’ll buy this as soon as am back at my laptop. I have no analytics to support it, but I swear !mdn is my most used DuckDuckGo shortcut. I’m signing up as soon as I’m back at my laptop.

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