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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#281

Post by jsjsbdkj »

stackedinserter wrote: post #72
joshlemer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protesters are still allowed to protest peacefully, they just aren't allowed to occupy the area around parliament and shut down border crossings for weeks, and intimidate and enact violence against the citizens of Ottawa. Nobody is stopping anyone from peacefully protesting in Canada, give your head a shake.

Nobody intimidated or enact violence against Ottawa residents. Based on what I saw with my own eyes last week, protesters and truckers are friendly and peaceful. IDK maybe they turn to werewolves at night, but the most aggressive thing I saw there was "fuck trudeau" signs everywhere.

Both of the grocery stores downtown closed because of alteractions with protestors. Front-line workers have been affected the most because they can't avoid going out. The rest of us are mostly not going downtown because there's rampant harassment if you're a woman, queer, POC, etc.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#282

Post by throwaway894345 »

malermeister wrote: post #229
throwaway894345 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two thirds doesn't seem like a particularly significant majority for such an authoritarian measure, and moreover the masses will always trade principle and liberty for a mere moment of catharsis--that's the whole reason we elect representative politicians: to be the prevailing cool heads who look out for our rights and liberties and not just the emotion of the moment.

A small minority has decided to infringe on everyone's right to liberty by occupying their city with heavy machinery. The pro-liberty move is to get rid of the occupiers.

Ah yes, the age-old liberal tradition of using the military to suppress peaceful protest.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#283

Post by zackees »

mmastrac wrote: post #237
refurb wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure any of those things matter? - Plenty of vaccinated people against vaccine mandates and other restrictions. Doctors are allowed to be Covid positive and treat patients in BC and QC. But apparently truckers who are Covid negative are a problem? - Foreign money influence is a problem, sure, but businesses? They can’t support a protest? - Last poll I saw (Ipsos) said 1 out of 3 Canadians support the protest.…

Only 22% say that the protesters should stay. 3/4 say "go home" [$]: https://angusreid.org/trudeau-convoy-trucker-protest-vaccine... [$] the survey option was "go home now, they have made their point"

From their own website:

"Survey Methodology: The Angus Reid Institute conducted an online survey from Feb. 11-13, 2022 among a representative randomized sample of 1,622 Canadian adults *WHO ARE MEMBERS OF ANGUS REID FORUM.*" (emphasis mine)

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#284

Post by LAC-Tech »

WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated.

I'm not sure why people think getting vaccinated is evidence of support for mandatory vaccinations.

Taxes are mandatory too, I pay them not because I think they're at the right level and used for the right things, but because of the practical repercussions of what would happen if I didn't and I got found out.

(it shouldn't matter, but - I'm double vaccinated, mainly because the jurisdiction I live in requires it for air travel. I have no strong feelings about vaccines either way).

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#285

Post by animal_spirits »

pm90 wrote: post #200
animal_spirits wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a snap election was it not? To me it seemed like the Canadian government was trying to take advantage of some weird timing/power trick to remain in government. Instead of waiting for the normal time to re-elect they saw an opportunity to stay in power. I am uneducated on Canadian politics so I could be seeing it wrong

No it’s not a trick it’s a feature of the parliamentary system. Arguably it’s much more Democratic in that you enable voters to choose whether they would like a change of leadership, anytime a Legislature is unable to function. OTOH in a Presidential system you get no such opportunity to get the public’s opinion. You have to wait until the end of terms (congressional or presidential or both).

That makes sense to me. But which people get to choose when to re-elect a government? I read that the Governor General was the one to call this last election. Do only certain elected officials get the power to call this or can anyone?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#286

Post by fineIllregister »

School-Cotton wrote: post #160
pkd wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no loss of mandate, if the opinion polls are anything to go by. Besides, the Canadian people chose the government in the middle of the pandemic last year. Is there a more comprehensive definition of a "mandate" than a federal election? Whether the response is authoritarian depends on how it is enforced. The police have basically failed to enforce any law on the occupiers on parliament hill (I live here). If…

> Is there a more comprehensive definition of a "mandate" than a federal election? Governments chosen by a first-past-the-post system can barely be considered democratically legitimate, if at all.

I agree with your criticism of first past the post.

The the proposal of the convoy occupiers is that their organization picks a committee to run the country. That's a significantly less legitimate government with absolutely no claim at a mandate.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#287

Post by WesternWind »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #127
WesternWind wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking bridges with trucks to protest public health members seems dystopian.

Clearly not everyone agrees that , what some consider medical tyranny, is a good thing.

Thank goodness I'm not trying to speak for everyone then, just for myself, because it doesn't seem like tyranny.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#288

Post by dmw_ng »

Wiseacre wrote: post #155
jcadam wrote: post #124

An obvious response to this, that doesn't involve blocking any roads, is for truckers to simply go on strike. Imagine if even a quarter of Canadian truckers just decided to sit at home and not move anything.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-02-...

For a country the size of Canada, they'd be invoking emergency powers just to cope with the number of excess roadside fatalities

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#289

Post by adra »

tomohawk wrote: post #51
joshlemer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protesters are still allowed to protest peacefully, they just aren't allowed to occupy the area around parliament and shut down border crossings for weeks, and intimidate and enact violence against the citizens of Ottawa. Nobody is stopping anyone from peacefully protesting in Canada, give your head a shake.

That's right. Only the government is allowed to shut everything down and put people out of work.

Love it or hate it, the pandemic has caused the loss of life and economic activity. You can't shoot or offload guilt on the virus, so you'll move to someone or something you can blame. I putty the politicians that have lived just as miserable lives putting up with armchair dictators without any real power but to complain about how others do their jobs

This virus will continue to cycle through our world and continue to kill millions of people. Checked or no, this will continue until the virus dies or the vast majority are dead/immune. Nobody wants this; it's literally bad for everyone.

The gov has pumped billions to prop up the economy. Did you get your bail-out? I certainly didn't get 1 cent. I did my job without a belly ache; I've taken the inflation hit like everyone else. The least that I want to hear is selfish blow-hards complaining about governments putting a cap on their selfishness. We all hurt, and only working together will we heal.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#290

Post by belval »

WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

I don't support the convoy, but this still makes me extremely uncomfortable. This is an actual extreme measure. When his father used it, he JAILED communists and "suspected terrorists" in Montreal for more than 24 hours without any evidence, effectively suppressing their rights.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis

> police officials sometimes abused their powers without just cause, and some prominent artists and intellectuals associated with the sovereignty movement were detained.

And to all the comments saying Canadians are supporting this move, they also supported it back in 1970. It's when they saw the consequences and that they actually understood how wrong it was that popular support dropped.

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