Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

People don't work as much as they say

drmaciver.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 313 posts

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#281

Post by jzwinck »

goodpoint wrote: post #202
jzwinck wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you feel that making direct technical contributions was micromanagement?

Because you either manage people / goals / interactions with other teams or do front line work. If you cross the barrier the people in your team will be put under pressure having to do things like for example disagreeing with technical decision or debating something in a code review with... the same person that has the power to promote or fire them. It creates a power gradient in every day activities. That's "stealth…

It sounds like you're saying that even reviewing code of subordinates is micromanagement? If you have a team of junior developers, who should review their code? Someone from another team?

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#282

Post by Grustaf »

rdtwo wrote: post #278
Grustaf wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> smart person would quickly notice that only things that show up on metrics or are personally fulfilling are worth doing In other words, only stupid people have a work ethic?

If you want to word it that way… seems a bit crude you can have work ethic and channel it towards metrics instead

No you're simply wrong. Plenty of smart people have a sense of loyalty and want to do what's best for the company and their colleagues, not just what's expedient for themselves.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#284

Post by mmcnl »

thorwawayrus53 wrote: post #233
_n_b_ wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a manager, your main job is to make your ICs effective at doing their work. That means you need to be dealing with poor performers, rewarding with outstanding performers, trying to improve uneven performers, managing expectations from your management and shielding your team from the vicissitudes of your bosses as much as possible, fighting for things your team needs while shielding them from the demoralizing reali…

> As a manager, your main job is to make your ICs effective at doing their work. Its a lie manager making dev's effective at their job. All a manager needs to do is communicate the requirements properly most preferably in a written document. That is the only useful thing. Everything else like motivating are just BS which has become very clear in the post covid WFH situation. Now looking back i can feel the needless i…

This is completely the opposite of my expectation. Gathering requirements should not be a manager's task at all, let alone writing them down.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#285

Post by jodrellblank »

tardigr8 wrote: post #108
orzig wrote: post #43

Valuable prospective, but (as is the gist of half my comments here): People are even more different than you think. RescueTime wrote a similar post, but +100 data: https://rescuetime.wpengine.com/work-life-balance-study-2019... Look at the second histogram. The average is roughly aligned with OP’s summary, but there is huge variance. These comments have already devolved into people telling each other they are lying,…

Another study here that uses an estimate for productivity. https://ftp.iza.org/dp8129.pdf His models show peak productivity between 5 and 6 hours a day. In my own experience, I have found productivity more related to sleep and exercise than anything else. Getting 7 hours good sleep (which means winding down for at least 30 minutes before sleep, a stretching exercise or meditation), and enough exercise every day to ge…

> “my defects went through the roof after a couple of days of 2 hours sleep.”

2hours sleep or 2hours less sleep? Because 2hrs is approximately none, that would not be at all surprising.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#286

Post by throwaway675309 »

jseban wrote: post #88
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artists and musicians specifically get a lot of social prestige. Similarly for actors. No, they - in general - do not. A few get this. A few more lucky folks make a living off of it. In the case of an artist, you are probably doing commissions and spend a lot of time on social media, in the post office, and such things just to tread water. Comic artists and animators you've never heard of go about their day in invisi…

> No, they - in general - do not. Yes they do. I'm both a musician and a software developer and the difference in social prestige is night and day, depending on how I present myself. You're trying to refute the statement that musicians and artists get a lot of social prestige, by stating that they make little money and do work that's not glamorous, and that's irrelevant, it's rather actually part of what gives it pre…

I think it depends on how you define the word prestige. I work as a software engineer but also freelance composing music for mobile games, I wouldn't say that people are exactly "in awe" of what I do in either situation. Neither job is particularly difficult.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#287

Post by sulam »

ahelwer wrote: post #279
sulam wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet one that billions of people participate in. You are either a genius of epic proportions or just wrong in your thinking here. As long as people in coordinated groups get more done than individuals, I believe you are wrong.

People in coordinated groups do not necessarily require someone to sit around in meetings and send emails telling the rest of them what to do.

Btw, I never said “telling the rest of them what to do.” That is a complete misconception of management, at least the way I believe the best managers practice it. I only get involved in decisions that my team has been unable to make themselves. Even then, I rarely find myself having to be the decider. My role is to facilitate a good decision, not to tell people what to do. The team looks to me for prioritization and providing context, not to top-down manage them.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#288

Post by BatteryMountain »

flyinglizard wrote: post #160
BatteryMountain wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if you have a peer that clocks 14 hours per day and work weekends too, for some reason? At our place they started comparing everyone to him. I work like at half his total speed. He often break things or have to redo things or are late to standup and don't really partake in conversations. We've all asked him to slow down and not burn out but he keeps going.

Speaking as a manager, I’d flag this dev as a concern. Very few people can work at this rate without one (or more) of three scenarios playing out: 1. They burn out and clock out mentally or leave altogether 2. They develop psychological issues and destroy their personal life, leading to an unbalanced and unsustainable situation 3. They expect something from the org in return, which normally the org can’t/won’t match…

He's been going like this for two years.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#289

Post by jseban »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #286
jseban wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they - in general - do not. Yes they do. I'm both a musician and a software developer and the difference in social prestige is night and day, depending on how I present myself. You're trying to refute the statement that musicians and artists get a lot of social prestige, by stating that they make little money and do work that's not glamorous, and that's irrelevant, it's rather actually part of what gives it pre…

I think it depends on how you define the word prestige. I work as a software engineer but also freelance composing music for mobile games, I wouldn't say that people are exactly "in awe" of what I do in either situation. Neither job is particularly difficult.

It's because you are not performing, it's the performance that's the awe inspiring part.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#290

Post by sciprojguy »

vincentmarle wrote: post #214
brightball wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite jobs was managing about a dozen Python programmers for 3 years…because I don’t know a lick of Python and it forced me to focus on the team more than the tasks. I got a lot of joy out of helping everybody develop, find their groove and helping them coordinate and learn from each other. The business demands I was shielding them from were extremely stressful though. A million things that everybody wan…

It sounds like you were trying to be too nice and were trying to appease both sides; that’s a losing proposition. You are working with adults, and adults should be able to handle bad news (if handled properly), and a good manager should be able to bring the bad news but at the same time give enough context so that everyone understands.

In a perfect world you would be right, but spend some time with a bunch of clueless executives who don't know how clueless they are (or are trying to pretend they do have a clue) and you'll realize there's no amount of context that will help them realize why there's bad news.
Post reply on HN