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Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

jasonstanford.substack.com

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Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#281

Post by spaetzleesser »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #122
nepeckman wrote: post #87

It's a shame that the comments here are laser focused on the tipping parts of the article, and not the bigger picture items. The author outlines the struggles of getting service jobs filled in high CoL areas, the vicious cycle of turnover in these jobs, and all the commenters here want to discuss is the 2 paragraphs on tipping.

Is it the only aspect of the article that most on this site can relate with? I take it most have not worked service industry or it was a very long time ago. I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/apt-cape-cod-restauran... > The verbal abuse from rude customers got so bad, the owners of one farm-to-table restaurant on Cape Cod said, that som…

“I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people.”

I think that’s a natural consequence of a society that measures everything by money.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#282

Post by cma »

unmole wrote: post #273

> And with the stock market at an all-time high, corporate profits soaring, and CEO pay exponentially higher than their workers, execs can afford to share the wealth a bit. Executive pay makes up a tiny fraction of the total salary expense of a large corporation. Even redistributing the entire salary of the CEO among workers will have no impact whatsoever.

> Executive pay makes up a tiny fraction of the total salary expense of a large corporation.

If the Activision/Blizzard CEO's pay were lowered to 100 times median income, it would be enough to give each employee an extra $16,000.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#283

Post by lacksconfidence »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #54
pitaj wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find that servers and bartenders are the most adimant supporters of tipping. They make a killing.

Making a killing is pushing it unless you're working at a high end place. I really wonder how many HN people have ever worked in a waitstaff role. As much as you might hate it, tips keeps you just above minimum wage 95% of the time. Its not some money fountain like some people here seem to thing it is. People who want tips of course want it because it gives them money on top of minimum wage, why the hell would you ex…

I worked at restaurants through college, ~20 years ago. initially chains (og, bj's, etc) and later on some nice hotel gigs (fanciest having a private dining room that went for $10k/night). While today I'm less certain on tips, at the time I was 100% in favor. It was clearly beneficial. Other people i knew in college were making $8/hr working as security guards, or folding clothes in a mall and i was walking out of the hotel with $200+ in cash after a 6 hour dinner shift, and $100+ for a 4 hour weekend breakfast. This was not barely above minimum wage.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#284

Post by MomoXenosaga »

MattGaiser wrote: post #228
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the only aspect of the article that most on this site can relate with? I take it most have not worked service industry or it was a very long time ago. I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/apt-cape-cod-restauran... > The verbal abuse from rude customers got so bad, the owners of one farm-to-table restaurant on Cape Cod said, that som…

> I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. Is it growing, or is it just unpleasant/impolite to state that a large segment of the population consists of jerks so we keep forgetting?

I wonder, we only tend to remember that one asshole today not the other 50 people who were normal.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#285

Post by mcv »

michaelt wrote: post #185
mynameishere wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many low-wage employees the alternative to this is check cashing fees which is even worse. The issue of why so many people are unbanked is a separate discussion.

This writer isn't unbanked, though - he's a former labor secretary. He was charged a "fee" to get his pay despite that.

Having to pay a free to get your pay is ridiculous and should be illegal. Your pay should simply be deposited in your bank account with no other obstacles to access.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#286

Post by bluGill »

davemp wrote: post #197
bluGill wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have just talked me into tips. I want a server who will entertain me while I'm waiting. There is a line of course, don't do too much, but a bit of make me feel better about it is worth paying extra for. Service with a good bubbly personality is well worth the extra cost in my opinion.

This shows a disturbing lack of empathy. > I want a server who will entertain me while I'm waiting. Not everyone does--people are fickle. There's also a reason theaters don't use a pay-what-you-want model. Having your lively hood to depend on the whims of strangers is no way to operate.

> Having your lively hood to depend on the whims of strangers is no way to operate.

Your lively hood ALWAYS depends on the whims of strangers. It doesn't matter what you do, you depend on strangers to support you.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#287

Post by paxys »

burkaman wrote: post #19
gbrindisi wrote: post #8

I am always baffled when I read about the tip culture in the states. I find it so belittling for workers. It seems to incentivize a mentality of "the customer is always right", with workers putting an extra effort to always smile and be nice in the hope for a fair tip.

It is belittling, and almost nobody except restaurant owners likes it. It's sort of a game theory problem - if we could coordinate everyone to stop tipping, then restaurants would be forced to pay their workers normal wages, and almost everyone would be better off. But if I stop tipping, I'm just an asshole making no impact on society. I guess the only practical approach is to simultaneously keep tipping and push for…

People who actually get tipped (servers, bartenders, baristas, caddies, drivers, delivery people) are by far the biggest proponents of keeping the current system in place.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#288

Post by beerandt »

dollarsuck wrote: post #194
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the only aspect of the article that most on this site can relate with? I take it most have not worked service industry or it was a very long time ago. I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/apt-cape-cod-restauran... > The verbal abuse from rude customers got so bad, the owners of one farm-to-table restaurant on Cape Cod said, that som…

An outcome of little to no consequences for actions. Come visit my local grocery store. Few replace carts at the store or in the stalls, there will be 2-6 vehicle using the clearly-marked "Fire Lane - No Parking" lane as their personal parking spots plainly blocking the doors of the foyer (and this is not drop-off, not pick-up, not having their spouse load up in a rain storm). Have "About 12 Items or Fewer" - well ha…

While I agree that "the customer is always right" attitude has actuality just become a policy of non-confrontation...

>I want the meat of sandwich A, the bread off sandwich B, the condiments from an item on the Sunday Brunch menu

If they think bread +meat +condiment is a highly demanding, needy sandwich order, then perhaps waiting tables isn't for them.

It at least suggests why they might find their tip-based compensation to be insufficient.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#289

Post by UIUC_06 »

jmcgough wrote: post #246
UIUC_06 wrote: post #243

Let's see: a pandemic hits, and suddenly we see a rush of stories like this. Is there a connection, and a solution? Or is everyone ignoring the elephant in the room? How about eliminating mask mandates & social distancing? Focus on protecting the vulnerable folks, and let everyone else lead a normal life. Let doctors provide meds for early-stage COVID patients that they believe work, and keep them out of the hospital…

You do realize that healthy, young people who get sick can spread it to more vulnerable people, right?

> You do realize ... right?

maybe drop that condescending tone repeating the TV wisdom? You know, that "wisdom" that comes from "journalists" reporting on the latest "studies"?

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#290

Post by JKCalhoun »

dollarsuck wrote: post #194
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the only aspect of the article that most on this site can relate with? I take it most have not worked service industry or it was a very long time ago. I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/apt-cape-cod-restauran... > The verbal abuse from rude customers got so bad, the owners of one farm-to-table restaurant on Cape Cod said, that som…

An outcome of little to no consequences for actions. Come visit my local grocery store. Few replace carts at the store or in the stalls, there will be 2-6 vehicle using the clearly-marked "Fire Lane - No Parking" lane as their personal parking spots plainly blocking the doors of the foyer (and this is not drop-off, not pick-up, not having their spouse load up in a rain storm). Have "About 12 Items or Fewer" - well ha…

> Few replace carts at the store or in the stalls

Self-checkout, bag-your-own groceries, return your cart...

Can't help but think this is simply a means by which the grocery cartel can get rid of jobs that high school kids have traditionally benefited from. I guess I have never seen the "cart return" thing as something you do out of politeness.

But if they're not going to pay the high school kids enough, maybe this is the. future (present) we deserve.

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