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Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

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Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#281

Post by dont__panic »

arepublicadoceu wrote: post #264

I keep a personal txt file named "cemetery_of_paid_apps.txt" it's where I hold all the apps that I paid and latter became subscription based as a reminder of how stupid I was of paying for apps. So far the list: 1. Fantastical 2. Unread 3. Notability 4. 1password 5. Infuse 6. 1blocker 7. PocketCast 8. Ulysses I'm well aware that some grandfathered their previous paid licenses after a lot of noise (Notability). But I…

PocketCasts actually granted previous purchasers a free Pro subscription in perpetuity because of community backlash. That one really annoys me because I would happily pay $5 for Pro PocketCasts functionality for a year or two, but I'm not going to pay a recurring fee every month since I don't care about any cloud storage or sync functionality.

On that note... if you don't want to use your free Pro PocketCasts subscription going forward, I would be more than happy to pay you $5 for it.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#282

Post by Atlas667 »

porcoda wrote: post #18

This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Given that developers need to be paid, and resources cost money, there needs to be a way to rectify that gap between the consumer and maintainer. At one point we did so by paying for an initial version of software, and then paying for updates. Now that we don’t do that, but…

I think your comment is the most sensible because it tries to understand it.

The bad part about these models is that they reflect the power of stakeholders in a company, not so much the worker/programmers. It reflects a mode of production keen on generating capital, not the interests of the workers on getting their salary, whatever many figures it may have.

The finger must be pointed at stakeholders doing what they do best; finding ways to generate capital. There is no animosity generated between work done and one paying for it at a market value, but there is between work and capital generation.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#283

Post by jtbayly »

voisin wrote: post #227
jtbayly wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, 1Password. I’m happy to pay for a new version if my current version stops working. OS or browser update broke the app? I’ll pay for the new version. But they are trying to force me to pay every month, therefore they remove my ability to use the app at all unless I pay for their cloud storage which I neither need nor want.

Honest question: Why use 1Password rather than a modern browser’s built in password management? Side note: Daring Fireball has had some discussion recently about 1Password moving to enterprise for employee password management and adopting the SaaS model in order to make this transition, alienating current client base in the process. A ballsy move!

Password sharing.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#284

Post by warrenm »

Macha wrote: post #261
warrenm wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of [possibly] amateur hobbyists, who isn't upgrading their software/hardware at least every ~3 years?

Have you _seen_ the IT infrastructure of some non-tech companies? The amount of companies that had to scramble for the Windows 7 (released 2009) EOL in 2020?

I'm aware that some laces are completely unaware of the world around them

Doesn't change the fact that the world keeps going whether you're paying attention or not

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#285

Post by jtbayly »

gefhfffh wrote: post #160
jtbayly wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, 1Password. I’m happy to pay for a new version if my current version stops working. OS or browser update broke the app? I’ll pay for the new version. But they are trying to force me to pay every month, therefore they remove my ability to use the app at all unless I pay for their cloud storage which I neither need nor want.

Well, they don't stop working on an improved app and new features while you don't want to update. You don't only get compatibility with X with the new version but all that as well.

Fine. They can work on the app and sell me on the benefits they’ve added.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#286

Post by warrenm »

ryandrake wrote: post #258
warrenm wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example breaks-down (no pun intended) on cars, though: software is likely not usable after 3-5 years (the length of a normal car lease) Cars are typically usable for well over a decade :)

> software is likely not usable after 3-5 years Whoa whoa wait! How did we get to this point? Maybe I’m living in the past, but software should work essentially forever. There are no moving parts. No wear/maintenance items. It doesn't distort like a photocopy when loaded to and from media. The only thing that should cause working software to fail is some underlying change to its foundation: an incompatible OS or brow…

>software should work essentially forever

Really? You're still running operating systems that are a decade old on hardware even older?

Why?

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#287

Post by webmaven »

chii wrote: post #203
Kbelicius wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because If I get a faulty vacuum cleaner I expect to be able to exchange it for a working one for free.

and yet if a lock could be picked, you don't get to exchange it for another one that couldn't be! Analogies breakdown when compared too carefully. I think software sellers is doing a courtesy when they provide security updates for free. They are not legally obligated to do it. The users are entitled to switch to a competitor however - by not having their data held hostage (which, i think modern laws don't properly ad…

> and yet if a lock could be picked, you don't get to exchange it for another one that couldn't be! Analogies breakdown when compared too carefully.

https://www.cycleryusa.com/articles/kryptonite-locks-recall-...

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#288

Post by basch »

ryandrake wrote: post #38

A lot of comments are already addressing this horrible trend of moving from standalone native software to “SaaS” but this one is also terrible: > now trying to trick people to use One Drive more A lot of software are now deliberately blurring the line between local storage and cloud storage, not just Office. When I choose to save a file, I expect to save it locally to my hard disk, in a file that I can find and manip…

>I expect to save it locally to my hard disk, in a file that I can find and manipulate, and keep secure. More and more, software is nudging users to save their files in “the cloud.” Non-techie users don’t understand the implication of this: they are uploading their private data to the Internet

Is that the expectation of younger generations? Do they want their only copy of a file on something that can fall in the toilet? Is the home network router and device OS more secure and more monitored than the cloud hosted firewalls?

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#289

Post by DarylZero »

warrenm wrote: post #286
ryandrake wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> software is likely not usable after 3-5 years Whoa whoa wait! How did we get to this point? Maybe I’m living in the past, but software should work essentially forever. There are no moving parts. No wear/maintenance items. It doesn't distort like a photocopy when loaded to and from media. The only thing that should cause working software to fail is some underlying change to its foundation: an incompatible OS or brow…

>software should work essentially forever Really? You're still running operating systems that are a decade old on hardware even older? Why?

The newer versions of OSes aren't supposed to break compatibility, and in fact they really don't.

The really old programs run in emulators. This is how I play 1980s video games. I highly recommend Mario Brothers (not "Super") from 1983. Still works.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#290

Post by uoaei »

MobileVet wrote: post #128
coldtea wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Blame the victim? We din't get any impression, as we don't set the prices. The companies set those prices. For example Adobe customers never got or set any impression that "software should be free/low price". They paid 100s to 1000s of dollars for each update or package r…

> We don't want "super cheap products", we want reasonably priced products we own after we buy. I am afraid the ‘we’ here isn’t nearly as large a demographic as you think it is. If it was, we wouldn’t see the mass of advertising supported products we see. Mainstream consumers do want free / cheap products, despite the many caveats associated with them and the market has adjusted to give them that. The other follow up…

Sometimes people think they want things a certain way because

1. They have no idea it can be different

2. They wouldn't know what it would look like if it were different

3. They don't understand, or they resign to accept, the ethical implications of the status quo

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