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Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

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Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#281

Post by germandiago »

denton-scratch wrote: post #269
IAmEveryone wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no, this is bullshit. People don’t just have agencies (Mossad, CIA), they also have agency as in: the power to change reality. And the vast majority of democratic countries are run by people who have a decent appreciation of the rule of law , which is what stands between your actual freedom and your gloomy fantasies. Then, there’s also a group of countries that simply cannot afford / don’t have the people to do…

> And the vast majority of democratic countries are run by people who have a decent appreciation of the rule of law Remarkable claims need remarkable evidence. Where is this democratic country that is run by people who appreciate rule of law?

Agreed. I was so innocent before.

The power of states must be reduced at this point.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#282

Post by yonixw »

tsimionescu wrote: post #248
yonixw wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found an example pretty quick.. Please go to [1] + [2] searches, while not a big channel on YouTube, ~200K subscribers in politics is kind of big for alternative-media with the top videos getting ~500K views. And now, please note that every video on China is something like "China is actually doing more for Climate-Change", or "Is China to Blame For Covid-19?" all suggesting China has so many good parts that we missed…

There is some bias in their choice of covering Israel's crimes much more often than China's, but I don't see the China apologism. They have a more nuanced view on China's global warming actions than you often see, but that view is quite realistic. I have also found one article [0] covering China's appalling treatment of Uighurs - that is little coverage, but it at least proves that they are not entirely covering Chin…

Sure. Look no further. The co-founder [0], Aaron Bastani, has a lot to say about Israel (nothing less than onslaught ofcourse [1]) But according to some of his twitter, we get all that you wanted:

* praising China's "wonderful socialist state" [2] (more like its totalaric structure)

* how ... happy the Chinese are [3]

* defend China's treatment of Uighurs [4] (downplay it a lot)

And after I looked, that one article you gave ([0] in your comment) is the only time they say anything about it, no mentions on their youtube or twitter. Furthermore, in the opening statement of the article, they described what the Uighur experienced as ".. have long faced discrimination". Wow... such strong words for what happend [5]. Brave and not apologetic.

---------

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novara_Media

[1] https://novaramedia.com/?s=Aaron+Bastani+Israel

[2] https://mobile.twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1462805238969...

[3] https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1476873294338998284/pho...

[4] https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1476874275223126021/pho...

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#283

Post by denton-scratch »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #59
tsimionescu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are few countries on Earth that have (a) directly officially threatened military action against another state, or (b) routinely bomb another state they are not officially at war with, the way Israel has. How are they not "taking aggressive military action"?

> (b) routinely bomb another state they are not officially at war with In what sense are we not officially at war with Palestine? Nobody ever signed an armistice, ceasefire, or peace deal to end the War of 1948. Nobody even wants to. The official policies of both the PLO and Hamas remain "struggle until victory". There are internal political reasons for this that any knowledgeable person can describe, but as far as a…

> In what sense are we not officially at war with Palestine?

Israel is a part of Palestine. Palestine has never been a state. How can "we" (Israel, I presume) have ever been officially at war with a territory they are occupying? How can you sign an armistice to end a war that was never declared?

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#284

Post by YawningAngel »

enkid wrote: post #241
bigiain wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm only aware of one case where the US government, without warrant, actively hacked its own citizens using a 0day It’s perhaps a bit broader than your definition there, but illegal exploitation and subsequent whitewashing of personal data by law enforcement is common enough that is has a name. Parallel construction. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction Another point. For me, being caught zero time…

This Wikipedia article is awful. It says it can be used to hide illegal evidence collection, but then only gives examples of it being used to hide sources and methods. I don't think there is a problem hiding a source if there is sufficient evidence from other sources and the first source is not illegal.

How do you know the first source is not illegal if its validity has not been tested in court?

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#285

Post by yonixw »

denton-scratch wrote: post #280
voz_ wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are their own government, with their own people, who readily elected a terrorist group to leadership.

HAMAS was declared a terrorist group after they were elected by a majority in the Gaza Strip.

More like after Hamas fighters took control of the Gaza Strip and removed Fatah officials [0]. So who destroyed their government and effectively haven't allowed any election since? Hamas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#286

Post by yonixw »

tsimionescu wrote: post #261
yonixw wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and controlling what enters the strip ... Unironically Yes!!!! Egypt do! Happy you see how mind boggling it is that there are others who deny access to the Gaza strip. (Again, because of their gov - Hamas) > x10 Palestine's fault? Who said that? It was during a war. It is because Israel has stronger weapons. A war that shouldn't ever started. Why did Hamas start it? You are really dodging the question here... > Als…

> Unironically Yes!!!! Egypt do! Happy you see how mind boggling it is that there are others who deny access to the Gaza strip. (Again, because of their gov - Hamas) No, Egypt has closed its own border with Gaza, but it is not enforcing a naval or airspace blockade, which Israel is. > Who said that? It was during a war. It is because Israel has stronger weapons. A war that shouldn't ever started. Why did Hamas start…

> No, Egypt has closed its own border ... but it is not enforcing .... blockade.

Sorry to say pal, you lost the plot. Look at a map please.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#287

Post by weatherlite »

tsimionescu wrote: post #274
weatherlite wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What we see instead is that Hammas has less and less ability to harm Israel Well yes, that's why the proportion is like it is. Once/if it gets the ability to harm Israel, many more Israelis will die. This has nothing much to do with "systematically killing Palestinians" or Hamas being merciful. It's just a possibly temporary balance of power. Interesting that Hamas fired the first shots in the last conflict, that's…

The point is this: for whatever reason (mostly, as you say, simple military inferiority), Hamas is no longer harming Israel to a great extent, and hasn't been in the last decade. Why then is Israel still harming Palestinians at the same rate it was back when Hamas was a major threat? The only reasonable conclusion is that Israel's attacks on Palestinian people are not related to Hamas attacks on Israeli people, they…

> The point is this: for whatever reason (mostly, as you say, simple military inferiority), Hamas is no longer harming Israel to a great extent, and hasn't been in the last decade. Why then is Israel still harming Palestinians at the same rate it was back when Hamas was a major threat?

Hamas can't get a lot of kills because Israelis run to shelters, they have a very advanced bomb sirens and radars. Without this I'm sure Hamas' kills would have skyrocketed. So it's not that Hamas isn't trying. BTW a lot of Israeli cities live under unbearable conditions, it has been shown the psychological trauma running for shelters (for years on years) is doing to young kids. I'm not denying Palestinian kids live under an even greater trauma, I'm only saying this is affecting both sides. I wonder what the UK or US would do if the kids in London and NY would need to run to shelters a few times a week because of missile attacks. I'm sure they would seek to proportionally kill just as many terrorists right? It's not as if Israel can just decide to absorb this and do nothing, what country would do nothing in such a state? You seem to have no words of criticism towards Hamas for some reason - because yes colonialism and white privilege, gotcha.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#288

Post by denton-scratch »

yonixw wrote: post #285
denton-scratch wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HAMAS was declared a terrorist group after they were elected by a majority in the Gaza Strip.

More like after Hamas fighters took control of the Gaza Strip and removed Fatah officials [0]. So who destroyed their government and effectively haven't allowed any election since? Hamas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)

That's not what happened. There was a fair election in Gaza, which was won by Hamas. The new government was perfectly within its rights to remove Fatah officials. Fatah launched an armed rebellion in Gaza.

Wikipedia is hopelessly unreliable on anything to do with the Middle East. -> Didn't read.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#289

Post by maratc »

efdee wrote: post #44
maratc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dare criticize it anyhow, you are quickly marked either a) antisemitic I don't think this is a good representation of anti-anti-Israel debate. The opposite of antisemitism is equality, where there is no "special" treatment of either Jews or Israel. Anyone can criticize Israel for its policies, provided they also criticize other states that have similar policies and not "single out" Israel as such. If only Israel is…

But isn't that just a roundabout way of describing whataboutism?

Any claim to fair and equal treatment can be dismissed with "whataboutism".

"Why I [female/transgender/black/etc.] receive half of what that straight white dude gets?" — "That's whataboutism."

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#290

Post by yonixw »

denton-scratch wrote: post #288
yonixw wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like after Hamas fighters took control of the Gaza Strip and removed Fatah officials [0]. So who destroyed their government and effectively haven't allowed any election since? Hamas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)

That's not what happened. There was a fair election in Gaza, which was won by Hamas. The new government was perfectly within its rights to remove Fatah officials. Fatah launched an armed rebellion in Gaza. Wikipedia is hopelessly unreliable on anything to do with the Middle East. -> Didn't read.

> Wikipedia is hopelessly unreliable on anything to do with the Middle East. -> Didn't read.

That's what the far right in Israel also says! Horseshoe theory at its finest.

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