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U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

apnews.com

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Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#281

Post by JimDabell »

mizzao wrote: post #171
TravHatesMe wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit of a tangent: I read the article to my wife and she mentioned that there is an episode of Grey's Anatomy where they wanted to perform a transplant of a pig's bowels but the Jewish (or Muslim?) lady refused. Interesting how one might choose to their faith over their life.

That was actually an inaccurate portrayal of Jewish law and Orthodox Jews "condemned the episode": https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ask-the-expert-kosh...

I was once stuck in line in a Subway behind two Muslim men having an argument. One of them was insisting that he couldn’t have turkey ham because eating ham was against his faith, and the other one was trying to explain that ham was forbidden because it was pork and that turkey ham was fine because it wasn’t pork. His mate just kept repeating “it’s still ham though, innit?” There were halal signs up, that wasn’t the problem.

A television episode can be an inaccurate portrayal of religious law while still portraying what real religious people actually believe. Not every religious person is smart and well-informed about all the technicalities of their religion.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#282

Post by theplumber »

Sporktacular wrote: post #230
dexwiz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pigs are really common in biomedical testing. They are physically a similar size and weight to humans. They also reach maturity in about 6 months. Much cheaper to raise than primates, and more likely to get approval for testing. My friends in biomed grad school named one of theirs cyber pig because it has about 30 different experiments ran on it before it was killed, and afterwards it was portioned out for further te…

Weird how this is said without a shred of sympathy or concern for an intelligent, helpless creature. Weirder how it can be said without a sympathetic or concerned response. I hope we can someday move beyond seeing animals as a mere resource.

I find such a remark weird given that "you" are serving such "helpless" creatures at your favorite restaurant. I think it's the ultimate hypocrisy. Not to mention that we have a situation where helpless creatures are sacrificed for the science/common good of human beings and the other situation where they are murdered for the taste of their meat & bones.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#284

Post by JimDabell »

JetAlone wrote: post #228
TravHatesMe wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit of a tangent: I read the article to my wife and she mentioned that there is an episode of Grey's Anatomy where they wanted to perform a transplant of a pig's bowels but the Jewish (or Muslim?) lady refused. Interesting how one might choose to their faith over their life.

I'd want to question why I'm doing it. For example do I have kids I need to stick around to support? Or am I just going to be discharged to mostly play video games, alone? Because I don't see a need to extend that life. Then I'd want to think about what it symbolizes. Is it really so irrational to just let my body die when my God-given guts fail instead of depending on the hands of man to possibly convert my body int…

> Imagine, God is calling me up to Heaven because it's my time, and this machine holds me down here on earth!

This logic only seems to work if you believe the pacemaker is more powerful than your god’s will.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#285

Post by mlyle »

JetAlone wrote: post #274
mlyle wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, there's this well-worn pseudo-parable: A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help. Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.” The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.” So the rowboat went on. Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “…

I've heard this one, yes. From my experience of learning about the God that I pray to, I highly doubt He's sending me commenters asking me one liners about seat belts and dialysis to convince me that the monk I admire was wrong, and that I should change my mindset to become more like the atheists I'm surrounded by. Rowboats, helicopters etc. in a flood, prima facia, seem to be more in character as a deliverance from…

> Rowboats, helicopters etc. in a flood, prima facia, seem to be more in character as a deliverance from a natural disaster.

Sure. But how we define "abomination" comes down to what we're used to.

Is taking a cheap statin that will improve your length of life subverting God's will?

If we're saying something is resource intensive and you don't give much back to the world in comparison to the resources used to prolong your life, that's an economic / purely utilitarian argument.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#286

Post by theplumber »

TravHatesMe wrote: post #163
dexwiz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pigs are really common in biomedical testing. They are physically a similar size and weight to humans. They also reach maturity in about 6 months. Much cheaper to raise than primates, and more likely to get approval for testing. My friends in biomed grad school named one of theirs cyber pig because it has about 30 different experiments ran on it before it was killed, and afterwards it was portioned out for further te…

Bit of a tangent: I read the article to my wife and she mentioned that there is an episode of Grey's Anatomy where they wanted to perform a transplant of a pig's bowels but the Jewish (or Muslim?) lady refused. Interesting how one might choose to their faith over their life.

To me it looks like some kind of natural selection. I wonder what would these folks do if a deadly pandemic would hit us and the only cure would be to use some pork "formula" injection.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#287

Post by saalweachter »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #208
jacobn wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See "total artificial heart": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_heart Layperson speculation: hard to power 24/7 without an external power source, it must connect seamlessly to the blood stream (can't have it disconnect from the aorta after five weeks), and the surfaces exposed to the blood must not cause blood clots (so careful at the seams).

It does make me wonder how the transplanted pig heart or any transplanted heart connects so seamlessly. The issue simply heals and grows together with the foreign tissue?

It's not quite all that seamless - since we can't hook up the nerves, your new heart won't adjust its rate the way your original did.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#288

Post by Hnrobert42 »

goldenkey wrote: post #276
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for things like this, being dispassionate is a coping mechanism. If you engage the sympathy part of your brain, you won’t be able to do it. If you don’t do it, then humans die instead.

John Wycliffe (1340 AD): "How should God approve that you rob Peter and give this robbery to Paul in the name of Christ?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_rob_Peter_to_pay_Paul

Yeah, except we are not talking about two people. We are talking about killing a pig to save a human, potentially thousands of humans.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#289

Post by xwdv »

Ensorceled wrote: post #47

Reminder: We've been replacing human heart VALVES with pig valves for a long time now. My grandmother lived for almost a decade after her replacement. https://www.heart-valve-surgery.com/learning/pig-valve-repla...

You can live indefinitely with animal valves though they may need to be replaced every 15 years or so. It’a a fairly straightforward minimally invasive procedure though.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#290

Post by rakejake »

woke_neoliberal wrote: post #35

The pig was modified to remove presentation of immunogenic sugars on the cell surface. Unfortunately, the recipient needs to be on immunosuppressants the rest of their life. This rekindles discussions back in school about chimeras... in order for the organs to be immunocompatible, the donor needs to be partially human. What % is too human to harvest for organs? I suppose it's still too soon to answer such questions,…

Speaking of chimeras, there is a Greg Egan short story from his book "Axiomatic" about a human leopard chimera which is bred by an eccentric billionaire specifically to pose for a painting. The actual story is even crazier.
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