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Kinesis Advantage 360

kinesis-ergo.com

281–290 of 339 posts

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#281
I've never used or tried any ergonomic keyboards.

Last time I looked into it ~10 years ago I dismissed them since there didn't seem to be sufficient evidence to support the bold claims they made.

What does it look like these days? Do these keyboard work? Is it worth switching from a traditional qwerty mechanical keyboard?

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#282
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did your doctors or therapists consider Thoracic Outlet Syndrome? I've struggled with severe pain in shoulders, arms, hands and fingers for several years. It was sort of discovered by accident. They removed both of my first ribs (rib resection) and in combination with a Kinesis keyboard and a Wacom pen and tablet as a mouse replacement it's much better now. Unfortunately, the solution came a bit late. The strain on m…

Wow! Another TOS survivor. Despite all the RSI talk in the programming community, I still find it very rare that someone is actually diagnosed, let alone, goes through TOS. However, I do suspect that its prevalence is higher than estimated in this target community. TOS killed my programming career. It ruined my life and brought me untold mental and physical pain. At one point I couldn't use my arms for more than thir…

Wow, I don't feel quite so alone anymore. I went through something similar, although I didn't have it as bad as you. I couldn't shake hands, lift a grocery bag, or drive for quite some time. The doctors I saw were stumped, and I got the sense that no one wanted to deal with it. I went to a PT, who guessed the problem incorrectly (in hindsight), but whose recommended exercises fortuitously happened to also help with TOS. It wasn't until many years later that a sports medicine doctor mentioned TOS as a possibility and everything clicked.

Can I ask how you were able to determine there was scar tissue? Was it just someone feeling it out or did you get an MRI?

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#283

I've started having problems with trigger finger (can't bend fingers in to make a fist) in both my right and left hands. Has anyone fixed this sort of problem with a new keyboard/mouse? I always hear about ergonomics in relation to carpal tunnel and wrist issues, but there is very little info (evidence or even advertising claims) about finger health.

I've had trigger finger in my pinkies for maybe 10 years now.

To my knowledge nothing except for maybe surgery will cure it. Excessive typing will unsurprisingly exacerbate it. I manage by remapping keys from the pinkies (emacs + ahk + Japanese keyboard with thumb keys), and using a keyboard with ultra light switches (Fujitsu libertouch with light membranes, plus cut slits in them to make them even lighter).

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#284

I picked up a Kinesis a few month ago and it's been a life changer. I've struggled with shoulder pain since as far back as I can remember. I'd done PT, dry needling, massage, etc etc. I'd even sprung for a personal ergonomic assessment. I'm a cyclist and and keyboard jockey, so most of my waking life is spent in positions that seemed to make it worse. At times it prevented me from sleeping, doing things I enjoyed, et…

Did your doctors or therapists consider Thoracic Outlet Syndrome? I've struggled with severe pain in shoulders, arms, hands and fingers for several years. It was sort of discovered by accident. They removed both of my first ribs (rib resection) and in combination with a Kinesis keyboard and a Wacom pen and tablet as a mouse replacement it's much better now. Unfortunately, the solution came a bit late. The strain on m…

Pretty sure I have TOS too — it's how I came to discover Kinesis keyboards. It's manageable for me now, but I would be curious to find out if there was nerve damage so that I know how further I can improve and what's futile. Can I ask how the doctors determined that there was damage to your arm nerves? E.g. what sort of imaging / tests do they do?

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#285

I've never used or tried any ergonomic keyboards. Last time I looked into it ~10 years ago I dismissed them since there didn't seem to be sufficient evidence to support the bold claims they made. What does it look like these days? Do these keyboard work? Is it worth switching from a traditional qwerty mechanical keyboard?

I can tell you for a fact that my Microsoft Ergo Sculpt instantly alleviated some wrist pain I was having that I thought might end up ending my career.

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#286
No function keys! Why?

This keyboard is obviously marketed at people who spend considerable time typing. When I'm in VIM I never use the Function keys, but every other serious productivity app - from Jetbrains IDEs to Microsoft Excel to Photoshop makes heavy use of them, often with modifiers. All of these cases now become triple- or quadruple- buckies on keyboards that require holding a layer key to access the Function keys.

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#287
post #96
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My best guess is that they're not important decisions to their target audience. I've been using a kinesis advantage for years, and I'm seriously considering getting one of these. I do not at all care about ZMK vs QMK -- I don't even know why I should care. RGB underglow? I don't even care that it's there, let alone programmable key backlights. I care about ergonomics. The selling point is the split, and bluetooth/wir…

I had to look it up too, but big drawback is ZMK does not yet support macros. So only the Advantage360 supports macros for now, the Advantage360 Professional does not ( https://zmk.dev/docs )

As a heavy user of macros, looks like I'd want to avoid the ZMK version then. It's a shame, as Bluetooth could be useful.

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#288

if you're still young, learn dvorak as soon as possible and when you're wise, you won't be crippled like these folks praising this keyboard.

I don't think there is universal agreement for Dvorak being more ergonomic than Qwerty. Qwerty was designed to make key presses with alternative hands statistically likely (to benefit mechanical type writers). But this is also a good ergonomic property. For example, common English works like "the" can be typed with one hand with Dvorak, but this is not necessarily ergonomic. It causes one to contort the hand more than if "the" is typed with alternative hands.

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#289
post #27

FWIW I've been quite happy with the ZSA Moonlander https://www.zsa.io/moonlander

I have one, but it's in a drawer now because I was finding it too difficult to switch between it and a normal laptop keyboard. I want a split keyboard that has all the keys in the same places, so muscle memory doesn't need to adapt. I touch type, so the same fingers just need to find the same keys in the same relative positions. Mainlander does not do that, and I can't find the layout or top view zoomable photos for…

The mistel barocco is an option. You can even combine the two sides of the keyboard without noticing that it could be seperable.

Re: Kinesis Advantage 360

#290

I picked up a Kinesis a few month ago and it's been a life changer. I've struggled with shoulder pain since as far back as I can remember. I'd done PT, dry needling, massage, etc etc. I'd even sprung for a personal ergonomic assessment. I'm a cyclist and and keyboard jockey, so most of my waking life is spent in positions that seemed to make it worse. At times it prevented me from sleeping, doing things I enjoyed, et…

Did your doctors or therapists consider Thoracic Outlet Syndrome? I've struggled with severe pain in shoulders, arms, hands and fingers for several years. It was sort of discovered by accident. They removed both of my first ribs (rib resection) and in combination with a Kinesis keyboard and a Wacom pen and tablet as a mouse replacement it's much better now. Unfortunately, the solution came a bit late. The strain on m…

After years of pain, I was also diagnosed with TOS. I will not go for surgery however, as this can make things more complicated. A split keyboard (I got the moonlander some months ago) did have a little effect for me, however not a huge one I was hoping for. I'm trying/doing a lot of posture related exercises. Some days its better, some days its hard to get through the work day. Would appreciate any hints which made things better for others with TOS and a desk job. It's a constant trial & error with ups and downs here.
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