President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#281

Post by PragmaticPulp » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #248

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

I would compare Tiananmen Square with the Tulsa race massacre. How many Americans don't know about it? The time I spend in the US I had the feeling that you have more of a pseudo freedom than actual freedom. Everyone keeps saying how free they are and how great their country is yet you can't even drink an alcoholic beverage on the street without getting arrested. You go to a town festival and the people who want to d…

> Everyone keeps saying how free they are and how great their country is yet you can't even drink an alcoholic beverage on the street without getting arrested. You go to a town festival and the people who want to drink are enclosed in a small area like cattle.

Public space alcohol consumption is one of the weirdest metrics I’ve seen to gauge freedom.

But for what it’s worth, laws regarding public alcohol consumption are a local thing. There are plenty of places in the United States where public alcohol consumption isn’t a crime. And of course, you’re free to drink privately.

But freedom doesn’t mean anarchy. If you want to nit pick individual restrictions on non-speech activities in public spaces then you can find something to complain about every country.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#282

Post by yardie » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #256

asib wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you genuinely comparing Tianamen Square to centuries of slavery?

The Chinese also don't talk about a lot of the bad things that happened in the great leap forward, which could have a case made that it was worse than slavery.

Is like to see what that case is? Because nothing about the Great Leap I’ve read compares to chattel slavery or the 40% losses of life in the transatlantic slave trade.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#283

Post by doodlebugging » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

toxik wrote: post #110

TrispusAttucks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” ~ George Orwell, 1984

Whenever you think that you’re on the outside looking in, seeing the world for what it is while others seem blind, you should reconsider your perspective. The Chinese people is not some herd of sheep without mental faculties. I wince when I see quotes like these spoken about a people of literal billions.

>about a people of literal billions.

I think that so far there, billion is singular since the population of China is only about 1.5 billion. The population growth rate is also in decline and has been for a while.

One and a half billion is still a big number though.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#284

Post by someguydave » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

Zigurd wrote: post #127

redleader55 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post supports with facts - ie. your own experience - the idea that moderate members of a group don't get oppressed, which is missing the point, in my opinion. I think the point of the parent of your post and the article is that regardless of what you believe, you should have the right to your opinion and should not be persecuted for it.

Your "persecution" is a cheap shadow of actual persecution, which was meted out to whole sexes and races under the flag of inherent superiority. That's not what the modern right is feeling. They are feeling the consequences of expressing overt racism and sexism. It is their right to do so. Nobody has taken away that right. It is everyone's right to reject racism and sexism and the people espousing it.

I agree, Republicans are suffering for expressing anti-racism and anti-sexism.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#285

Post by dionidium » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #246

colinmhayes wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely disagree with your portrayal of consequentialism. Freedom absolutely provides utility, and allowing the government to disappear people who disagree with it is in no way a path to maximizing utility.

The American government "disappears" many people by locking them up in the criminal justice system. It's just for slightly different reasons.

This comparison is risible. First of all, you actually do have to commit a crime to go to prison, in the vast majority of cases. Second, the details of your trial (and appeal) are public. The "mass incarceration" meme has been too successful for it's own good, so successful that people seem earnestly to believe that most prisoners are innocent or there for spurious reasons, but it's simply not the case. The median state prisoner in the U.S. is a violent offender with a long rap sheet.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#286

Post by k1ll3r » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

China poses a significant threat on basic human freedoms of all people. We need to aggressively fight back against any and all influences that are Chinese in origin.

Don't do business with Chinese companies, or companies that are even affiliated with Chinese companies. Don't accept funding with ties to China. Etc etc.

And more importantly, we need programs for Chinese citizens that allow them to immigrate and live in Western countries provided they renounce their Chinese citizenship. The people aren't at fault here, naturally, it's the system that is corrupt and is using the population to further its own corrupt ideology.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#287

Post by mytailorisrich » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

gtirloni wrote: post #247

mytailorisrich wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May they simply did not want to be put on the spot by getting into a political argument. Arguably you brought up a topic not suitable for a social dinner with colleagues.

Nobody was arguing, we were interested in their view. You don't know how close we were on a daily basis.

Discussing politics is always getting into argument territory and always best avoided on social occasions, especially if you do not know the opinions of the people around you.

For instance, I (in Europe) don't "lightly suggest" things in the US are difficult when it comes to guns/Trump/abortion/etc to American colleagues because these are sensitive political topics and nothing good can come out of that. You mentioned it was in South America so maybe another example would be to mention drug cartels and Pablo Escobar to Colombian colleagues.

I can imagine your Chinese colleagues thinking "here we go again..." and politely stirring the conversation to another topic.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#288

Post by dqpb » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

toxik wrote: post #110

TrispusAttucks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” ~ George Orwell, 1984

Whenever you think that you’re on the outside looking in, seeing the world for what it is while others seem blind, you should reconsider your perspective. The Chinese people is not some herd of sheep without mental faculties. I wince when I see quotes like these spoken about a people of literal billions.

> The Chinese people is not some herd of sheep without mental faculties.

Can Chinese people freely communicate with each other? The ability to do so is critical for unimpaired mental faculties of the collective.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#289

Post by someguydave » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

stelonix wrote: post #257

someguydave wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way you can truthfully say that the US went to Iraq to murder an ethnicity. Flagged.

I'm still waiting for the incontestable proof China is trying to get rid of Uygurs. No, a known anti-China source such as Adrian Zenz being propped up by adversaries of China does not count. If you have the slightest understanding of discourse, you already know this: you don't get a biased source to report on the subject they're biased about.

If you are not in the US, and you are not in Europe (this article is blocked there) which continent are you on?

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#290

Post by xwolfi » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

I'm a French immigrant in China.

I think you're building a fake dichotomy: as a politician in France once said, borders are the only hope we have to escape if we dont like what we have. It's fine to have many models and important we can move in between them. I agree China cares about the result now but it's probably temporary: once the middle class is proportionally more important, priorities will shift, they already have somewhat. Xi Jinping announcing in glorious pomp a new stock exchange in Beijing is, for all the flaws of the communists, sort of different from what Mao would have done.

Tiananmen is not something the Chinese want to forget, but that the communists want to hide, it's a bit different. But, since there's always balance in everything, rather than throw themselves wave after wave on their bullets, they make the most of what they can get now and bide their time. If that can give you some sense of relief, I never met a pro communist Chinese, never one, who would defend the party: they only ever say stuff like "bah, we had an emperor before, it's the same with another name", hardly a support of the ideology you'll agree lol.

In America your Tiananmen are the civilian deaths and war crimes in Afghanistan, and see, you forgot about them and prefered to talk about someth you reformed already, like a Chinese would say of nobility and servitude under the empire. Face your demons, if you dare :)