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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#281

Post by lobocinza »

habitue wrote: post #152
actually_a_dog wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That narrative makes sense, except for one thing: why wouldn't the Fed have taken their foot off the gas once inflation hit, say, 4%? Why wait until we're at 6.8%?

The other mandate of the Fed is getting full employment. Pumping money into the economy helps increase employment and there is a long way to go to get back to pre-pandemic levels on that metric. They believed the inflation was transitory, and were going to wait it out. Now it's very clearly not transitory, so they are taking action

In the long run all is transitory. That being any action in a complex system can result in an unforeseen cascade of effects.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#282

Post by usrusr »

lordnacho wrote: post #80
onion2k wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the other side, whenever a member of my team has come to me asking to match an offer I've always refused and wished them well in their new role. If someone is unhappy enough to start job hunting rather than talking to me then it's a clear sign that they'll leave soon regardless of any pay rise. Psychologically, every pay increase makes someone happy for a short time, and then they get used to it and they start t…

Depending on the situation, it might make sense to keep them for that extra year. There's a lot of specialist roles where you're really dependent on some particular person and it's nice to have a year to find a replacement.

And implicitly tell all your other employees that they better go searching for new jobs or else they won't get a raise, ever? The result is that going out to do interviews has effectively become part of their job description, because apparently that's what you pay them for.

It's all game theory, in a minefield of unintended consequences. I take the opposite approach: an unspoken but clear attitude of "you know you won't be able to buy me when I excuse myself with a better offer, so better ask yourself now than later how much you actually want to pay me". And no, that certainly does not make me fabously rich (but there actually was a time when it worked much less bad than I would expect, quite amusing in hindsight)

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#283

Post by refurb »

onion2k wrote: post #270
refurb wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m guessing Denmark and the public sector is very different than other countries and industries. When a key contributor asks for a 20% raise (or say $50,000 more per year) and them leaving put millions of dollars of revenue at risk, or more importantly, reflects poorly on a manager and threatens their advancement (why can’t you keep your team happy?) then the math is actually quite simple. But in a highly siloed and…

them leaving put millions of dollars of revenue at risk Every team should fight against this. Writing simple, understandable, documented code that doesn't need some key person to maintain it is a very good thing. For a start, failing to do that locks people in to their job. Not being able to move on, and up, is a very bad thing. Secondly, people leave for reasons other than money. What if someone's husband gets a coo…

I’d question how good your people are if the best of them leaving wouldn’t impact your revenue. It sounds like an assembly line punching widgets, so maybe the work is neither urgent nor requiring dynamic thinking and responding quickly to changing market conditions? In that case I could see it not mattering if someone leaves.

My experience is on teams of 2-3 working towards a product launch that has to happen in 6 months and sure we can always replace someone if they die. The cost of that if not in revenue, but team efficiency, sacrifice of other work, is way more than a few tens of thousands per year.

And of course, everyone is replaceable. But replacing them may cost more than just paying them more, even if it keeps them around for another 6 months.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#284

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

ernst_klim wrote: post #258
manmal wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people in the US call left elites, is being called slightly rightwing in the EU. When I hear comments like „state-funded housing is socialism“ I have to chuckle. That’s just how you make sure people won’t starve if they don’t resort to shady business. Bernie‘s ideas would be called leftist here, but not extremely so.

> is being called slightly rightwing in the EU That's simply not true. > Bernie‘s ideas would be called leftist here Where is "here"? How is "financial transaction tax" a mainstream idea in europe?

The EU have tried to introduce it a bunch of times. Normally it got fought back by the UK, who are no longer in the EU. I could definitely see this happening in the next five to ten years.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#285

Post by hectord »

toyg wrote: post #257
Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

> As a non-American, it's heartbreaking to see efforts to unify the underclass completely derailed by this ridiculous race war. Yeah, well, it's not like things are much better in Europe. Far-right parties are now mainstream in most major EU countries, and their n.1 priority is exactly the same. Signed, a Brexit victim.

Please don't generalize. Far-right parties are not mainstream everywhere. Europe is complex, as much as the US.

The issue with this way of thinking is that you look away from countries which might have good policies. These policies could be used in the US.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#286

Post by dukeofdoom »

On the other hand things are getting absurd with crypto currency speculation, NFT cartoon characters selling for millions, and even there was a story here about some girl making 100k on selling jarred her farts.

The wealthy are are starting to lose belief in the value of the dollar, and will literally trade dollars for virtual tulip bulbs.

Feels like Hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic is fast on the way.

Further Port backups, or gas price strike by truckers could get us there this winter. Just a few days of hunger, and things will really kick off.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#287

Post by lodovic »

furyg3 wrote: post #264
Kiro wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at Sweden. The collectively bargained pay increase was below inflation in all sectors. You should unionize for many reasons but I wouldn't trust it as an efficient tool for pay negotiations.

Most of the collective bargaining agreements I've heard about here in the Netherlands involve an automatic inflation correction at the end of the year.

But regardless, the wages still keep slipping against inflation.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#288

Post by passerby1 »

hvidgaard wrote: post #280
dan-robertson wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most Americans are significantly worse off since the 1970s I think this is obviously false and hurts the credibility of the rest of this comment. There are many pitfalls with measuring long-term inflation. How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? These modern technologies make peoples lives much better and were somewhere between impossible and impossibly…

What good is new tech if you cannot afford to buy a house or a new'ish car for the minimum wage, even if you live frugal and save?

Are metaverse gonna replace lack of owning a house (and travel) soon? /s

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#289

Post by nickpp »

hvidgaard wrote: post #280
dan-robertson wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most Americans are significantly worse off since the 1970s I think this is obviously false and hurts the credibility of the rest of this comment. There are many pitfalls with measuring long-term inflation. How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? These modern technologies make peoples lives much better and were somewhere between impossible and impossibly…

What good is new tech if you cannot afford to buy a house or a new'ish car for the minimum wage, even if you live frugal and save?

For example, it lets you live in a less expensive city and work remotely wherever you want.

Also it allows you to learn and raise your earning potential.

Finally modern transportation options less expensive than cars like e-bikes and e-scooters allow you to commute easier.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#290

Post by freddie_mercury »

bjarneh wrote: post #184

Not sure how inflation is calculated globally; but where I live (Norway) we leave housing costs out of inflation. That always seemed very strange to me. Our main cost of living, (which has gone through the roof the last 25 years) is somehow left out of the calculation. My rent, or cost of buying a house - is much more important than the cost of a Snickers bar.

Norway includes housing. Says so right on the page from Statistics Norway that says how CPI is calculated.
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