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Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

reuters.com

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Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#281

Post by mistermann »

aklemm wrote: post #17
bko wrote: post #3

> Doughty said the CMS lacked the authority to issue a vaccine mandate that would require more than 2 million unvaccinated healthcare workers to get a coronavirus shot. > "There is no question that mandating a vaccine to 10.3 million healthcare workers is something that should be done by Congress, not a government agency," wrote Doughty. That's a good point. You can agree that its within the federal authority to mand…

"some agency"? It's an agency put in place and managed (budget, appointments, etc.) BY ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES. Did you want a direct vote on vaccine mandates? Sometimes it seems people fail to understand what a representative government is.

"Representative".

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#282

Post by olliej »

chronofar wrote: post #189
docflabby wrote: post #169

If we can't convince medical workers to recieve a vaccine from their peers we are doing something wrong.

Convince or compel? Do you expect all healthcare workers to receive any widely prescribed treatment? Is there no room for dissent in your mind?

We require healthcare workers wash their hands.

We require other vaccines.

There is plenty of room for dissent, but it stops being “dissent” when it is simply denying reality.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#283

Post by ghoward »

lpcvoid wrote: post #237

Vaccines should not be a personal freedom choice. They are a life saving invention, where did we go as a society that this is suddenly up for debate? Did people forget that we eradicated Polio, Tetanus, Hepatitis etc? Where does this sudden influx of people come from that are opposed to this absolute incredible work of science?

> They are a life saving invention, where did we go as a society that this is suddenly up for debate?

So condoms, another life-saving invention, should also be mandated? Should you lose your job if you don't wear your seat belt? (Wearing a seat belt does save others by preventing you from becoming an out-of-control projectile and hitting others.) Should people be prevented from buying unpasteurized milk if they want it? Should smokers be forced to quit with the threat of losing their job or fines or jail time, especially since their smoke affects others?

> Did people forget that we eradicated Polio, Tetanus, Hepatitis etc?

Those are sterilizing vaccines that survived longer scrutiny than the COVID ones, and the COVID ones are not sterilizing.

To be honest, the lies around the COVID vaccines have me now questioning those supposedly safe vaccines.

> Where does this sudden influx of people come from that are opposed to this absolute incredible work of science?

If they are anything like me, they came because of the lies we were told. Once we figured out they were lies, it was a natural thing to question other things.

And the vaccines are not an incredible work of "science." They are an engineering effort. That sounds a lot like Fauci claiming that people who criticize him are criticizing science, as though he defines what science is.

Spoiler alert, he does not.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#284

Post by tastyfreeze »

kelnos wrote: post #252
tastyfreeze wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coercion is force. Being told to vaccinate or get fired is not a choice it is coercion.

Yes, and coercion is a tool that governments use all the time in order to keep selfish people from trampling over the safety and well-being off their neighbors. Vaccination perfectly fits that bill.

The SARS-CoV2 vaccine does not provide any meaningful reduction in the spread of the virus. At best it provides a reduction in severity of symptoms for an individual infection. So, your argument that forced injection is justified is null based on vaccine effect alone. Current attempts at coercing employees to vaccinate also do not take into account naturally acquired immunity that is stronger than any vaccine provides.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#285

Post by wayoutthere »

dang wrote: post #245
wayoutthere wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolute horseshit. Government regulation of public health during a pandemic is absolutely its role. We have required a great number of vaccines for the last 100 years. The coronavirus vaccines are some of the most-tested out there. Anti-vaxxing was a fringe position that nobody took seriously before Covid. The only reason this virus is remotely political is because we had a demagogue in the president’s offic…

Hey, would you please not post flamewar comments like this to HN—regardless of how right you are or feel you are? It's not what this site is for, it destroys what it is for, and your post here is a noticeable step down in discussion quality. Several steps actually. We've had to ask you about this more than once before. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the inte…

Maybe the first line? But the rest of the comment seems fine…

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#286

Post by kelnos »

jtbayly wrote: post #111
curt15 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine is mandated as a condition for employment. Is it different from universities requiring vaccines for their students (Indiana University already won a legal challenge -- https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/08/barrett-leaves-indiana-un... ) or military personnel having to get a battery of shots when they enlist? All those requirements should survive or fall together.

Mandated not by their employer, but by the federal government's executive branch is the question at hand.

Public schools in many (most? all?) municipalities require kids be vaccinated against several things before being allowed to attend school. This has been the case since well before I was born. This is a government setting the requirement. Now, perhaps it is not legal for the federal government to set this sort of requirement. But maybe it is.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#287

Post by davidw »

refurb wrote: post #196
davidw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After 6 years back in the US, I'm starting to get a bit of a 'gut feeling' that it's time to get out again.

If personal freedom scares then yeah, time to get out.

I can have a beer in the piazza with my friends in Europe. I can even have one in the car as long as I'm a passenger and the driver isn't drinking. People can build a 6-unit building in most areas in most towns. They can start a business without being required to provide a sea of parking.

Another enviable feature of European democracies is that the group that receives the most votes ends up being the group in power.

Plenty to dislike as well, but it's always a compromise.

Also, 'personal freedom' comments are ... pretty ironic today of all days. "Tell me you're a dude without writing you're a dude".

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#288

Post by kelnos »

bko wrote: post #22
Anechoic wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and whose head is appointed by one person Note that while the position is appointed by POTUS, it is a Senate confirmed position - she was approved with a vote of 55-44 [0] (with five R votes). [0] https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_...

That's true. My impression is that this is more or less a rubber stamp and the head is acting on behalf of the president. I can't imagine someone getting elected to this position that wouldn't take marching orders from her appointee. It's a lot of power to give one person.

In that case I don't understand your objection; the president is an elected official, so if this department head is acting on behalf of the president, the argument that this was done by an unelected official is kinda irrelevant.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#289

Post by beerandt »

sjwalter wrote: post #275
treeman79 wrote: post #102

What are the odds a healthcare worker hasn’t been repeatedly exposed to Covid by this point?

A bit under half of Americans have already caught covid. Even without vaccines, that means nearly half of Americans already have natural immunity which is vastly superior to vaccine immunity. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

>A bit under half of Americans have already caught covid

No- that many have had a positive test or other diagnosis confirming covid.

There were plenty of non-hospitalized, non-diagnosed cases before the tests existed. And plenty of people have had it and never saw a reason to get a test to confirm it.

I'd say we're far above that estimated number.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#290

Post by dham »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #248
dham wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it does care about your age and your weight because it in 80% of the hospitalizations and deaths this is the reason of complications.

It doesn't care about that.

Yea, I suppose you're right, but something cares about it. The human body?
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