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Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

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Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#281

Post by throaway46546 »

rllearneratwork wrote: post #151
adam_arthur wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond specific companies, Texas has more favorable business climate and tax rates. Housing alone is such a huge knock against CA for new companies. Even paying somebody 500k there leaves them feeling middle class when trying to raise a family. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but in Texas they build like crazy to support population inflows. If you drive through Austin you'll see every third or fourth house is getti…

they are also not hostile to kids in public schools (CA dumbs down math, requires masks, requires CRT, etc.)

Can you give an example of something specific that is taught in California schools with regards to CRT that you object to?

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#282

Post by kwillets »

killjoywashere wrote: post #241
wonderwonder wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are setting up fairly close to Tesla. Wonder if they are working on a deal for Tesla to provide battery backup. Interestingly enough Austin, TX appears to be rapidly approaching SF status as a tech hub and may soon surpass them. Its an interesting thing to watch and really gives insight into how politics and taxes affect business and growth.

> Interestingly enough Austin, TX appears to be rapidly approaching SF status as a tech hub and may soon surpass them. Uh, maybe it's time to take a drive through Austin, but that was a pretty sleepy little college town 10 years ago. Most of my family lives in the central Texas region (San Antonio, San Carlos, College Station), and I presently live in Mountain View. I have a hard time believing SF-scale infrastructur…

+1 for comparing wind tunnel capacity. Also TX has no dirigible hangars.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#283

Post by extheat »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #163
rllearneratwork wrote: post #76

with Tesla, SpaceX, Samsung and other tech investing this heavy in Texas, when/will it surpass CA as a tech powerhouse of the future?

Can they get similar talent with draconian social policies like abortion bans? If I suggested moving to Texas my wife would (rightfully) tell me to go fuck myself. There's been a lot of talk about Texas "turning blue" over the past few years and I wonder if these companies either moving their operations or building new plants there could be the tipping point.

There's no way the abortion ban will survive in its current form once it gets to SCOTUS. Even the Texas state legislature knows that. So it's just a matter of time before it gets watered down.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#284

Post by PKop »

oceanplexian wrote: post #213
ecf wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for this is purely on the shoulders of business leaders coming out of MBA programs across the US. It seems the only thing those places are teaching is how to join a company, strip it to the bone, hype up the short-term 5% growth, and get millions of dollars in raises.

The blame is clearly on the shoulders of politicians and those who keep voting for them. Most of the political class are pushing globalization, and thus align tax incentives towards outsourcing. Imagine if the politicians in charge practiced what they preach and refused to buy or import goods that were produced by countries who don’t meet US labor law or emissions standards. The problem would practically solve itself…

>blame is clearly on the shoulders of politicians and those who keep voting for them

Or a system that depends on "voters" to know any of the nuances and details of manufacturing and supply chain importance, or actually vote with long term broad national interest in mind, instead of short term, out of narrow self-interest, and largely be ignorant of all manner of political, economic and other issues.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#285

Post by PKop »

ecf wrote: post #59
JavaBatman wrote: post #11

I am still amazed by the shortsightedness of how these critical and strategic goods are off-shore. No wonder why the supply chains are fragile and not robust. It should be illegal for strategic goods and components such as chips and semiconductors to be produced offshore. Yes, it will raise prices in the short and medium-term, but it will make the domestic economy and manufacturing sector more robust, resilient to su…

The blame for this is purely on the shoulders of business leaders coming out of MBA programs across the US. It seems the only thing those places are teaching is how to join a company, strip it to the bone, hype up the short-term 5% growth, and get millions of dollars in raises.

And people wonder why China structures their political system to subordinate the interests of multinational corporations to the longer term interests of the nation, its people and economy as a whole.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#286

Post by dboreham »

johnchristopher wrote: post #279
josaka wrote: post #69

After the TX grid failure last winter, it's probably not a coincidence that Samsung's new facility will be near ERCOT's operation center in Taylor, which manages the TX grid, and will likely be the last load to shed when the grid's stressed. Used to work in the Austin fab, and the amount of money lost per minute in a power failure is mind boggling. The tax breaks Taylor offered ($314m) are not that different from wha…

Isn't Samsung big enough to simply ask permissions to build their own nuclear reactor at that point ? Or wind turbine farms or whatever ?

Reactors and wind farms still need a grid.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#287

Post by PKop »

alecco wrote: post #228
ecf wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for this is purely on the shoulders of business leaders coming out of MBA programs across the US. It seems the only thing those places are teaching is how to join a company, strip it to the bone, hype up the short-term 5% growth, and get millions of dollars in raises.

To be fair, they are often just following orders: "Maximize shareholder value" with a quarter/year schedule.

Which is why ceding so much power to these entities, rather than vesting that in the state and the people, is a mistake. Of course capital free to come and go and flow wherever it wants will discard a nation and its people's interests to pursue global profit margins at every turn. Just letting that happen with no recourse and restriction is a silly way to run a country.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#288

Post by 41b696ef1113 »

mindcrime wrote: post #131
shortstuffsushi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the siren thing varies from location to location, a good friend of mine lived right next to one and it seemed you couldn't go 15 minutes without being drown out by them heading out.

I wonder if the siren thing varies from location to location, In my experience (former firefighter here), it absolutely does. It also varies by call type, time of day, etc. So if we got a call at 2:00 AM and there was no traffic on the road near the station, we might leave the station with no siren out of respect for the people trying to sleep in the homes very close to the station. This would be more true if the cal…

>getting on the Q pretty much right out the door

Q?

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#289

Post by ksec »

m0zg wrote: post #277
ksec wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morris Chang has been exceptionally clear on this issues when he was still CEO of TSMC, even before the whole politics and TSMC becoming leading edge. It is impossible with respect to current cost structure, without substantial government money, while getting the same margin. Of course it is entirely possible to throw money at the problem and succeed. Which is what Intel is trying to do right now with the help of US…

> Morris Chang has been exceptionally clear He can be "exceptionally clear" and still biased in favor of TMSC. > It is impossible with respect to current cost structure Well, we'll have to pay a few cents (or dollars) more per chip then. It is infeasible for us to continue to depend on TMSC in the long term - it will be taken over by our largest geopolitical adversary by 2030 at the latest. We do not have a choice bu…

>He can be "exceptionally clear" and still biased in favor of TMSC.

Probably. But It wasn't that TSMC doesn't want to move, he made it clear the maths doesn't work out. Giga Fabs operate at scale and efficiency is precisely why you could make a $30 M1 Die.

>Well, we'll have to pay a few cents (or dollars) more per chip then.

That is easier for mature node. But most of the time we are not talking about mature node but leading edge.

If the maths were a few cents or even a few dollar things would have been done already. In US, for TSMC having the same margin would probably put M1 close to $50, while having higher initial R&D cost, meaning more volume to amortise the cost, or higher final retail price depending on sector.

So Morris's question to TSMC's client, are you willing to pay 50% to double for US made silicon. As far as all major US players, that is Qualcomm, Nvidia, AMD and Apple. The answer has been a simple no. They want it cheaper! ( Looking at Nvidia's constantly moaning )

Of course there is another path, forcing TSMC to operate in US while lowering their Net Profit margin. Which is likely what is happening here. The only good thing is that US is finally understanding the risk of its supply chain. For some people like me who has been crying about it for nearly a decade.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#290

Post by 41b696ef1113 »

dnautics wrote: post #117
guai888 wrote: post #18

‘Impossible':TSMC founder Morris Chang on US dreams for onshoring chip supply chain https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4327937 Morris Chang spent 25 years (1958–1983) at Texas Instruments.He knows US very well.

key phrase: > a full chip supply chain in the country (emphasis mine) TSMC is, after all, ALSO building a fab in the country, so it's not like TSMC doesn't believe in onshoring chips to the US. The fabs are {high capital expense/high recurring expense/high skilled labor} operations so the US is very competitive due to the labor value-add. Not every part of the full supply chain is like that. To serve (aka reduce risk…

I also think people get focused on having a state-of-the-art production. Lots of value in having a domestic facility that can make last N-tier generation chips (10, 14, 22, 32, etc) are all capable of providing significant value.
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