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Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

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Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#281

Post by seoaeu »

GordonS wrote: post #259
starik36 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel launched over 900 attacks on Gaza This has a super simple solution. 5 minutes after Gaza (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, whoever is in charge) stops bombing Israel with missiles and rockets (which it has done since 2007), there will be no more conflict in Gaza.

This is demonstrably false, as Israel has in the past completely ignored Hamas' ceasefires.

And vice versa. At the moment, Hamas' desired strategy seems to be to launch a salvo of rockets and then demand a ceasefire until they can reload for the next salvo

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#282

Post by whimsicalism »

yonixw wrote: post #253
whimsicalism wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't. Sending a Police Riot control unit against a group of people throwing stones and molotovs does not qualify as being terrorized. Is it a police operation if it is conducted in occupied foreign territory or would that count as military action? > They are, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and many more... not some and not maybe. Is every Palestinian who voted for Hamas in the last elections permitted in Palestine in…

> Is every Palestinian who voted .. a terrorist as well? No. But at the same time, If Hamas hides military equipment in a news building where other civilians work, then Hamas is committing a war crime. And Israel has the right to attack this building while taking every action to minimize civilians bystanders casualties. As they did by giving 1hr notice.

Israel routinely mixes civilian and military operations, particularly in Mossad, and uses civilians as cover for their work.

Israel engages in illegal extrajudicial assassinations of civilians, and their occupation of Palestine is a war crime under the geneva convention.

No evidence has been presented that Hamas was actually hiding military equipment in this news building.

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06/israel-says-ham...

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#283

Post by seoaeu »

GordonS wrote: post #264
ashtonkem wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza City has a higher density than NYC (34k per sq mi vs. 29k). Now imagine trying to run an anti-mafia campaign using only air power.

Maybe don't do that then? If someone knowingly bombs areas densely packed with civilians, then they are committing war crimes at best, terrorism at worst. It's incredibly difficult to have sympathy with Israel when their politicians and military behave with such little regard for human rights and human life - I really wish they'd take the moral high ground and just fucking stop the evictions, abductions, torture, bea…

No, Hamas is committing war crimes by deliberately launching rockets from an area packed with civilians, knowing that some of them will be killed by the return fire. And doubly so if you consider that the rockets Hamas is launching are targeting densely packed cities (without military targets nearby)

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#284

Post by fzil »

yonixw wrote: post #91
VictorPath wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Al-Haq is a Palestinian human rights NGO funded by the European Union. Two weeks ago, Israel labeled six Palestinian NGOs, including al-Haq, terrorist organizations and has outlawed them. This was condemned by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and others. The EU also funded the other Palestinian human rights NGOs which Israel outlawed. The US had an office in Jerusalem dealing with Palestinians that Trump clo…

> including the building in which the Associated Press had its office, a building Israel said it purposely targeted. Why did you omit the reason for targeting? "... because it was being used by the groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad and that terrorist attacks were directed from there" https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-received-mo...

That's the excuse used to bomb every hospital, school and press building by the Zionist regime. Hard to take anything that comes out of their mouths seriously.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#285

Post by sharikous »

tartoran wrote: post #166
yonixw wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Molotov != Protest 2) > follow the history of the region > terrorize their neighbors Counter example: 2005: Israel unilateral dismantling of the 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip 2007: Hamas takeover of Gaza 2007: Gaza Blockade I do not think we see the history of the region in the same way.

Not talking about Gaza, look closely at the whole map and how all palestinian territory is fractured, divided and isolated from one another. One can think its a security measure but it ceases to be one when they move in their own settlers in. Second, molotov and rocks is protest, not a peaceful one but it still is. You have to understand these people have nothing else to lose, they’ve been beaten down with far more u…

Molotov and rocks may be both protests and murder attempts.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#286

Post by ashtonkem »

LegitShady wrote: post #279
ashtonkem wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not what aboutism, it's the introduction of reality to your 'logic'. Again, please follow the rules of this forum. You’re pushing the norms of politeness here very, very hard. > You are asking why you don't have access to the evidence into an investigation into a designated terrorist group I actually never asked that question. What I actually said was “if the state doesn’t provide evidence, then we’re under no…

It's not your state, and your state wouldn't give you confidential evidence into a terrorism investigation either. You can imagine there are plenty of informants and intelligence taps to which the state doesn't want to give clues, right? Why do you think this foreign state isn't as capable of dismissing your demands as you are of saying 'tough' to them? That's the issue with your original 'tough' comment. It's just i…

> It's just internet bravado, and doesn't survive contact with reality.

Okay, I’ve reached my patience limit with you. Go use ad hominems on other people, I’ve tired of your blatant abuse.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#287

Post by ashtonkem »

pythonlion wrote: post #267
ashtonkem wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tough. The logical consequence of “we can’t show you the proof” is “okay, I don’t believe that you have any”. After all, you would not believe my assertions about fantastical achievements without evidence, and the consequences of that hypothetical are much lower than the state saying it should be able to kill people in the name of “counter terrorism”. More succinctly; “it would compromise means and methods” is a phen…

countries do hit jobs rarely and when they do its clear this person was involved 100% of the time. That's the only case people get killed in the name of “counter terrorism”. the discussion was about banning an organization not a person.

They claim that, yes. Then again the DOD also claimed that their final drone strike was on a valid combatant, later on they had to admit that it was just a worker being greeted by his children. Whoops (/s).

Obviously banning an organization is much lower stakes than killing or jailing someone, and we should adjust accordingly. Still, if Israel (or any other country really) is going to run around and say that an organization or person is connected to terrorism, they should pony up enough evidence commensurate with the actions they propose so that we can discuss the matter. The pressure for any state to conflate political and security threats is high, and public scrutiny is part of what provides a counter balance.

This is particularly important if a country is demanding that the international community writ large take action against a given person or organization. Should not the citizens of the countries being asked to participate have the opportunity to see some evidence and discuss the matter?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#289

Post by helge9210 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #282
yonixw wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is every Palestinian who voted .. a terrorist as well? No. But at the same time, If Hamas hides military equipment in a news building where other civilians work, then Hamas is committing a war crime. And Israel has the right to attack this building while taking every action to minimize civilians bystanders casualties. As they did by giving 1hr notice.

Israel routinely mixes civilian and military operations, particularly in Mossad, and uses civilians as cover for their work. Israel engages in illegal extrajudicial assassinations of civilians, and their occupation of Palestine is a war crime under the geneva convention. No evidence has been presented that Hamas was actually hiding military equipment in this news building. https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06…

> and their occupation of Palestine is a war crime under the geneva convention

This is not true. Military occupation by itself is allowed, but puts certain restrictions on the occupying power. For example, it's forbidden to transfer own population into the occupied territory, which Israel does.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#290

Post by whimsicalism »

helge9210 wrote: post #289
whimsicalism wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel routinely mixes civilian and military operations, particularly in Mossad, and uses civilians as cover for their work. Israel engages in illegal extrajudicial assassinations of civilians, and their occupation of Palestine is a war crime under the geneva convention. No evidence has been presented that Hamas was actually hiding military equipment in this news building. https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/06…

> and their occupation of Palestine is a war crime under the geneva convention This is not true. Military occupation by itself is allowed, but puts certain restrictions on the occupying power. For example, it's forbidden to transfer own population into the occupied territory, which Israel does.

I wasn't saying that occupation in general is a war crime, I am saying that the Israeli occupation as it manifests itself right now (ie. with settlements) is.
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