Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85% • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#281

Post by maxerickson » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

tmoravec wrote: post #171

mbreese wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t read anything about this study, but this is common for highly effective treatments. Let’s say you have a randomized clinical trial with a control arm (placebo) and test arm (drug). If the vast majority of the test cases do significantly better (like 90% of the test cases), at some point it becomes unethical to continue. Why? Because you already have the evidence that the treatment works, so having the contr…

Pardon my naive question, but aren't there more objectives for the clinical trial? Particularly testing for negative side effects? How are those judged if the trial is discontinued?

Safety continues to be evaluated during Phase 3 (and after approval), but trials don't proceed to Phase 3 without establishing some reasonable baseline for safety in the earlier phases.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#282

Post by cblconfederate » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

I hope this proves to be real going forward. The vaccination route seems to be hitting a deadend as a way to end the pandemic. The pill will have to be cheap and available over the counter, it makes no sense not to subsidize this.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#283

Post by shoto_io » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

This is Pfizer’s antiviral drug. Merck’s drug might be effective as well, but if seems like to be also a drug with many side affects interfering with your genome.

Getting vaccinated looks like a better option to me. Anyone know if the Pfizer one works similarly?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/11/02/har...

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#284

Post by GhettoComputers » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

twofornone wrote: post #229

jolts wrote: post #216

Lets ignore the fact that its basically ivermectin with more side effects. Except ivermectin is 30 cent per dose and not under patent..

Well, they are both protease inhibitors. It is quite plausible that if this drug works that ivermectin also does indeed work. But this isn't new information and every time I post it I get downvoted for spreading "misinformation". But big pharma would never skip an existing, cheap, off patent treatment in lieu of guaranteed multi-billion dollar, liability free vaccine contracts, right? We can totally trust these guys,…

Yeah the big pharma were so moral they allowed any other company to copy their complex vaccines that needs special cold storage with significant investment they got free from the government also for specialized manufacturing, all this is offered patent free out of the goodness of their hearts! I wonder why smaller companies didn’t take them up on their generous offer?

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#285

Post by aj7 » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

matsemann wrote: post #178

djrogers wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the consequence of not taking it is a 0.5% chance of death, so probably not a lot of running for those who understand COVID death rates.

It seems to me that you're one of those not understanding COVID death rates, though. Firstly, even though I doubt your number a bit, even a 1/200 chance of death is mighty high enough for most people to seek treatment for something. Secondly, if you're already infected, the pill is probably less risky than those 1/200. Thirdly, the chance of death isn't equal for everyone. A healthy young person might have a 10x redu…

A 1/200 chance of death is gigantic.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#286

Post by todd8 » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

DanHulton wrote: post #190

noir_lord wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, yep absolutely. However on the other hand I look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Queen_Elizabeth_(R08) which cost $4 billon to build. A billion is a lot of money but not for governments, it's kinda tragic when you look at what we spend on some things that we haven't figured out a more sensible way of allocating resources.

The problem, as it ever seems to be, is capitalism.

What alternative to capitalism are you implying would be better? If you have a viable alternative, just do it yourself. (I’m not saying all by yourself, team up with others to make it happen.)

I’m not being sarcastic, I’m genuinely interested in what you believe would get us from here to a Startrek-like economic system.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#287

Post by grey413 » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

rafale wrote: post #2

So as good as a vaccine basically?

They're apples and oranges, really. The best course of action to get a vaccine for the preventative effects and an antiviral if one has a breakthrough infection.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#288

Post by woodruffw » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #271

jjuel wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure we don't understand the long term risk of getting COVID either right? I mean it has not even been around for 2 years. Plus we do know it is possible only 1 infection would kill you.

That’s a straw man argument, when you take this drug you already have 100% covid19. Presumably that means you’ll have that risk, plus additional unknown risk. Perhaps the drug works like advertised, but we’ve seen better and more successful studies for things like ivermectin and anti-body treatments. Which have a known risk profile. It’s the same for the vaccine. You still have the risk of what ever the vaccine risk…

This is a strange additive error to make: proactive or reactive treatments for COVID-19 don't produce additive unknowns in the presence of a COVID-19 infection, since their entire purpose is to improve healthcare outcomes (whether by reducing infection severity or incidence altogether).

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#289

Post by davidw » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #271

jjuel wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure we don't understand the long term risk of getting COVID either right? I mean it has not even been around for 2 years. Plus we do know it is possible only 1 infection would kill you.

That’s a straw man argument, when you take this drug you already have 100% covid19. Presumably that means you’ll have that risk, plus additional unknown risk. Perhaps the drug works like advertised, but we’ve seen better and more successful studies for things like ivermectin and anti-body treatments. Which have a known risk profile. It’s the same for the vaccine. You still have the risk of what ever the vaccine risk…

> Presumably that means you’ll have that risk,

But greatly improves the odds of not dying, which is pretty important for a lot of people.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#290

Post by wonderwonder » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

peakaboo wrote: post #183

roenxi wrote: post #86

> This is a completely novel molecule... Then do we understand the risk profile of this thing? That sounds like the sort of innovation that people would want to be at the back of the queue for. Side effects don't have to happen in the next 6 months.

I'm not touching any Pfizer drugs with a 10 foot pole. I guess I'm one of the few actually wise humans left.

Interesting. From a quick google search: Pfizer brands include Advil, Bextra, Celebrex, Diflucan, Lyrica, Robitussin and Viagra

You never take an advil?