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Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

independent.com

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Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#281

Post by pxc »

the_sleaze9 wrote: post #157
altacc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic example of somebody becoming rich and thinking that makes them an expert on everything and the most qualified to solve any problem they cast their mind to. See also: just about every other billionaire on the planet.

Warren Buffet himself calls it the "Shoe Button Complex" Apparently from his youth, his Dad had a friend that ran a shoe button factory and managed to corner the entire market of shoe buttons. Then in his personal life went on to be a know it all about everything else on the planet. Munger and Buffet both are pretty transparent about being so didactic though. If you don't want the strings attached to the money, say n…

I think this is a general problem that's common among people with specialized expertise. This kind of problem is common among engineers, lawyers, and doctors as well.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#282

Post by mindcrime »

mindcrime wrote: post #91

From my point-of-view as a former firefighter, I would say this: A building meant to house 4500 students, with only two entrances? There's a word for that: deathtrap. Building this is setting UCSB up to be the site of the next Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire[1], Station Nightclub fire[2], or Hamlet Chicken Processing Plant fire[3]. At a first glance, based only on the information provided in the article, I'd say tha…

FWIW, I am intrigued enough by this that I decided to reach out to SBFD and inquire as to their position (if any) on this proposal. I just sent the following email to several of their fire prevention / inspections / public info people. If/when I hear back, I'll update you all. Or heck, maybe one of them will sign up for an HN account and post something. That would be interesting.

----

> SBFire:

> Hi, I have a question I hope you can help me with. I

> stumbled across an article about the proposed UCSB "Munger

> Hall" on an Internet forum that I frequent.

> https://www.independent.com/2021/10/28/architect-resigns-in-...

> As a former firefighter myself, I got some serious bad

> vibes from the way this building was described. I made a

> comment about my concerns which sparked (no pun intended)

> a lot of discussion about fire safety, building codes,

> etc.

> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29038356

> As it happens, the original article was somewhat light on

> details about the fire safety aspects of the building. So

> I wanted to reach out to you and simply ask "From an SB

> Fire perspective, has this building design been reviewed,

> and - if so - are there any outstanding concerns from a

> fire/life safety viewpoint?"

> I'm particularly interested in knowing if there are any

> concerns around the number of entrances / egress points,

> the proposal for interior bedrooms with no windows, and

> whether or not this structure would be sprinklered.

> Thank you kindly!

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#283

Post by loeg »

musingsole wrote: post #264
loeg wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Design life for buildings is under 50 years and 100-year pandemics are somewhat less frequent? I mean I agree it would be a miserable place to shelter-in-place for COVID, but with COVID in the rear-view mirror for the vaccinated, I'm not sure it's a major concern. I think fire safety, lack of entrances, lack of windows and fresh air are bigger concerns.

Gamblers fallacy. Not sure what you're contributing besides.

Please elaborate on how that's responsive to my comment. Again, not really sure a possible 2 year pandemic is especially significant in the 50 year design life of a building. Even if it sits empty for 4% of its life with 100% probability (generous), you still get 96% (48 years) of use out of it.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#284

Post by bobthepanda »

mindcrime wrote: post #200
maxcan wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its exceedingly likely that that number does not include fire escapes and emergency exits.

Maybe so. This article elides a lot of details... in fact, they don't touch on fire safety aspects at all as far as I can tell. So maybe there are sufficient accommodations made in terms of fire safety. It's hard to say. But... if the design really was done by an amateur architect who probably has little or no background specifically related to fire/life safety issues vis-a-vis building design, and it truly hasn't be…

Is there a local jurisdiction in this country that approves permits without checking if they‘re valid for the local fire code? That just doesn‘t pass the smell test.

My alma mater had to go back and redo a building based on fire marshal concerns.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#285

Post by lbriner »

gbronner wrote: post #148
indodima wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not need to be an architect to see that living in windowless boxes (not rooms) will damage young adults psychologically. Just put yourself into this room and try to study for 6 hours a day. It looks worse than a prison cell. This old fart probably has his own ideas about how poor students need to work and live in order to "earn" an education. Not to mention anything regarding virus spreading...

The goal is to get the students out of their bedrooms. There's plenty of common space, and lots of really nice places to go study and socialize out of your bedroom. This is intended to promote real-life socialization, which is the only real reason to go to in-person college these days. Plus, everyone gets a single! My college roommates had blackout curtains on the small windows in our rooms. Not sure how this is diff…

Which is great except 50% of people are introverts and need space to recharge. How many people live like this in real life? That speaks to the choice of hanging out followed by "leave me alone".

It sounds like an experiment but it could probably have been done slightly further "away from home" if it was about collaboration. Just have places to encourage people to hang out if they want to and not if they don't. Forcing them just feels like mental breakdown waiting-to-happen.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#286

Post by aurizon »

I see a lot of criticisms by people with a long history of wood buildings(which burns), painted(which burns), wooden furniture with foam(which burns). Is this building made totally out of non combustable components which will not create toxic fumes if intentionally doused with gasoline. This means all furniture, floor covers, lights etc simply will not burn. Then they have sprinklers as well. Windows, Bill Gates has some rooms with no windows at all, but they do have huge screens on which lessons, movies, travelogs, and even the view from any place on the property at any time of day or date. How would you like to have a screen of a warm sunny day in June to look at on a dreary January day?

We have seen the result of aged construction codes unable to adapt to this modern age. This dorm looks to have been well thought out as an experimental future habitat, with fire safety and access thought out, exits, air exchange, heat exchange all dealt with adequately

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#287

Post by whimsicalism »

mindcrime wrote: post #101
macinjosh wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entrances != Egresses. Do you ever notice those doors that say emergency exit only?

Which history shows us tend to be locked or barricaded when they're not supposed to be, or obstructed in some other way, or otherwise unavailable. Sure, there are other egresses available in principle. Hell, you can sledge-hammer your way through a wall in a pinch. But in any practical sense? Having two primary ingress/egress points is a horrible idea.

I think the general concept of the one way exit door is rescuable from the mistakes of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#288

Post by suzzer99 »

adolph wrote: post #243
pseudalopex wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your roommates chose to have blackout curtains. And they could choose to open them.

A student in a windowless room could choose to have a SAD lamp. https://nymag.com/strategist/article/best-sad-lamps.html https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/light-therapy/ab...

Apropos name.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#289

Post by bobthepanda »

adolph wrote: post #243
pseudalopex wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your roommates chose to have blackout curtains. And they could choose to open them.

A student in a windowless room could choose to have a SAD lamp. https://nymag.com/strategist/article/best-sad-lamps.html https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/light-therapy/ab...

Ah yes, let‘s make the students paying out the butt pay for an expensive lamp in a room that barely fits in said room.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#290

Post by ajross »

vmception wrote: post #224
ajross wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are assuming a lot about whether the safety designs exist, or are adequate. Uh, yes. Because there are laws governing how we can construct buildings in a safe way, and on the whole (c.f. the number of deaths in building fires over time) they work well. So I trust them. As far as the putative logic flaw, I don't see it. Everything is a tradeoff, even "because money". Saving money on the dorm means lower tuition,…

You're assuming those laws are adequate. I wrote that the first time. It's a bad idea, you trust them just because the catastrophes haven't happened. For the next few weeks in your day to day, look at how many emergency exits are disarmed or blocked or locked, look at how many other inspectable things just aren't inspected, like when the last elevator inspection occurred on the ones you use. We're trying to save peop…

> You're assuming those laws are adequate.

This is getting toward conspiracy theory territory. It's... a building code. Yes. Yes, I tend to trust building codes that have been keeping all of us safe in our homes and offices for the better part of a century. If building codes don't work, then where are the disasters in all the other buildings? You're saying that every other building in the USA in the 20th century "just happened" to be built safely, despite a thousand year history of terrible urban fires, and that regulation had nothing to do with it?

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