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What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

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Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#281

Post by dorfsmay »

floatingatoll wrote: post #266
dorfsmay wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay the taxi to take you to an address. You don't pay anything to google, you decided to use their ad funded "search engine", which they don't charge you anything for, and you complain that you get... Ads?

Okay, assume the taxi rides are free. The taxi driver is now wasting your time taking you all across town just for a selfish kickback. Meanwhile, you value your time, presumably , so you're getting more and more annoyed as they do this. I don't see how removing the cost of taxi somehow makes this scenario acceptable. What am I missing?

A selfish kickback? Would you drive a taxi for free?

Nobody forced you in that free taxi, you got in on your own. Use another service if you don't like the cost of "free" (ads).

Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#282

Post by saimiam »

floatingatoll wrote: post #208
vkou wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An ad directing shoppers to your competitors who pay them is not a protection racket, no more than a travel agency directing travelers to businesses that they have a relationship with. It's the entire business model of aggregators and intermediaries and middle men, which compose roughly half the world's working population.

You tell a cab driver to take you to Morton's Meats and instead they take you to Shelly's Steaks (who pays them a kickback each time they do this), and then charge you for that detour to earn their kickback when you demand they take you to Morton's like you asked in the first place. Is this appropriate behavior by the taxi driver? Would a regular person consider this deserving of punishment? Is Google's search result…

They tell you they’re going to make a short detour which will hardly inconvenience you or cost you more than a couple of bucks for extra via Shelly’s Steaks en route to Morton’s meats. They neglect to mention that SS is giving them a kickback.

That’s what the ad does. It adds a bit of cognitive load where you have to view and then ignore the non-William Sonoma ad but ultimately, and without much fuss, let’s you go off to WS.

> ethically equivalent

No. Google ads are fine when seen this way. The can driver’s behavior is more egregious if their decision to take a detour isn’t communicated to you AND runs up your fare by enough to materially affect you, whatever that level may be.

Disclosure - I’m actively trying to un-Google my life so definitely not a fanboy.

Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#283

Post by jameshush »

sam0x17 wrote: post #187
peanut_worm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re kidding! A single click costs more than a dollar?

Back in the early 00s clicks on Mesothelioma were something like $24 a click because anyone who could spell it probably has it and is looking to sue.

“Mesothelioma Lawyer” was still one of the highest cost clicks when I was working in ad tech about 2 years ago. IIRC the cost was north of $50

Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#284

Post by [deleted] »

vasco wrote: post #155
citizenpaul wrote: post #109

I've been beating this drum for a decade. I once even had a marketing department shut down with analytical proof. I got tired of the marketing department with probably 50x the IT department budget constantly jumping down our throats about how "IF ONLY IT HAD DELIVERED X BY X we could have had 100,000,000,000x /s sales this month" I made a dynamic report dashboard in my first react project to analyze market spending a…

More in "things that definitely happened" at 7.

[deleted]

Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#285

Post by capybara_2020 »

syrrim wrote: post #249
worker767424 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a tax, it's a protection racket. You wouldn't like it if someone looking for Williams Sonoma saw results for Sur La Table, would you? Pay up.

Google is offering a service, namely a way to connect your customers to your website. Arguably, on brand ads are just a way to pay for that service.

They also have a responsibility towards the person searching. I know more than a few people that have been conned into thinking an Ad provider is the official site for a service.

Especially with government websites. Lots of shady companies use ads above the actual search results to drive people to their site. Charge people for a service that is free.

Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#286

Post by lifeplusplus »

tomhoward wrote: post #277

Related: I happened to be acquainted with a founder of one of the major coupon sharing sites, after they’d sold it for a rumored 8-9-figure sum. It didn’t make sense to me that it could be so attractive to brands to promote coupons there. People have already decided they want to buy the product; why would you want them to go hunting for a big discount after they’re already sold? He told me that the people who like it…

Groupon

Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#287

Post by bostik »

syrrim wrote: post #249
worker767424 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a tax, it's a protection racket. You wouldn't like it if someone looking for Williams Sonoma saw results for Sur La Table, would you? Pay up.

Google is offering a service, namely a way to connect your customers to your website. Arguably, on brand ads are just a way to pay for that service.

Funny. In any other industry hijacking a business's name and trademark for payment would be considered facilitating fraud.

But in marketing, it's somehow fair game?

Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#288

Post by edmundsauto »

sam0x17 wrote: post #187
peanut_worm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re kidding! A single click costs more than a dollar?

Back in the early 00s clicks on Mesothelioma were something like $24 a click because anyone who could spell it probably has it and is looking to sue.

Before Google banned much of the advertising on the category, some addiction treatment keywords cost north of $300 per click. “Drug rehab Las Vegas” was my favorite, because if they didn’t use a tight keyword match, they would get charged for people trying to find the Rehab pool party.

Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#289

Post by zaphirplane »

titzer wrote: post #181
alphabetting wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather ignore some ads which are less intrusive than places like Amazon than pay a subscription fee to use search, gmail and docs which are funded by ads.

There are other options. For example, funding a publicly-owned search engine with $1 billion a year in infrastructure and development costs would be 50x cheaper than what the US spends on foodstamps. It'd be 1/10th the NSF's annual budget. Not that that's the best option, but we could consider some new ideas.

A government owned search engine is 100% bad idea, it will cost a ton, it will cost more than equivalent business developed one, it will be abused by governments and law enforcement, your traffic will be combined with government data to make a last century dictatorship police state weep for joy be a money maker for people you very much don’t admire

most of all there is no public value for it when the government can legislate operators

Re: What if performance advertising is just an analytics scam?

#290

Post by zaphirplane »

mbesto wrote: post #18
simonsarris wrote: post #2

> Technically, when someone does a Google search for “Williams Sonoma Cast Iron Skillet,” they probably would have clicked on one of the first 10 organic results, EVERY ONE OF WHICH leads to their website. But, y’know what ol’ Billy Ma’s performance marketers couldn’t then do: prove their value to their bosses. > [picture of that search term and williams sonoma ads with shopping links] The main problem here is that i…

> The main problem here is that if Williams Sonoma was not advertising on that search term, Lodge and Food52 etc etc would, and then those companies would be above the Williams Sonoma organic placements. This is what is known as "on brand" Search ads. I like to call these effectively the "Google Tax" because publishers/retailers are forced to pay Google for the traffic they would have already received had the ad not…

Is the premise here I search for “ford electric car” get 3 ad for other makers, and ford in the top 1-2 search results

So I click on the Toyota ad cause it’s on top, and buy a Toyota? Which is taking business from Ford ?

What is the answer, no ads hmm that’s not happening on a free search engine.

Mark the ad as an ad hmm done

Don’t show other results for any brand related keyword search, when all keywords are blocked probably nothing left to show

What should the ideal free search engine show when I search for “intel vs AMD”, should intel complain the first result is for a tech site.

I do genuinely wonder if the conclusion that the brand company lost money is valid, I do wonder if those searches are like ppl putting cnn in a search bar or generic searches

imagine you are driving to a specific restaurant see a billboard ad for another restaurant so change directions and go there, would you dislike the bus/building with the sign

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