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How The Hell Is This My Fault?

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Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#281

Post by aceg »

jacquesm wrote: post #249
bugsy wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've passed her contact info to PG and him being the smart man that he Wow, that is some crazy talk. Given that PG sees her as the enemy and his friends at Airbnb the good guys beyond reproach he should not be contacting her. He has absolutely no business doing so. Also, unless she asked for it, it was a massive privacy violation to release that information to a third party. Outrageous. What is he going to do now?…

> What is he going to do now? Hire thugs to intimidate her? Wow, that is some crazy talk.

Jacque,

That you don't see a problem with passing on her personal details onto an investor is somewhat disturbing. It's obvious you have an affection for PG, I've read many of his essays, he's a smart guy who has what I'd classify as a mini god complex. But that's irrelevant and so is his intellectual abilities. What is relevant is his very close association with AirBnB.

Honestly, if he HAD to choose between her well being OR AirBnB's, who do you think he would choose?

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#282

Post by Uchikoma »

cookiecaper wrote: post #85
blub wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of situation that leads to 'Keep away from fire' labels being added to t-shirts. To me renting your home to a stranger and then failing to check up on them for an entire week is incredibly naive. 10 year old naive. I don't care if airbnb said that they would provide 100% insurance, I would still not do this, it is simply against how I know the world works. And don't tell me about the 'good human bein…

Your post is a bit cynical. Most people are good in most interpersonal matters. This doesn't mean that you should take the gamble, however, on something as personal and important as your primary residence. We should recognize that while most people will not trash your home if you let them stay there without any supervision for a whole week, some people will. I don't know the exact proportion, but even if the chance i…

In Russian roulette most chambers ARE empty. Most pulls on the trigger will NOT kill you.

I'm sorry, but I can't understand this "most people are good" argument in this context.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#283

Post by capdiz »

After reading the lady's blog. airbnb dudes you really screwed up. You dare suggest she takes her blog down. I had actually defended airbnb yesterday before reading her side of the story. But am now inclined to believe that you guys screwed up and need to do some damage control.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#284

Post by Shenglong »

do you really think they are so dumb that they don’t realize it’s not worth the bad PR to save money and effort in this situation?

I'm siding with pg on this one. I can't imagine any intelligent person making this PR trade-off just for some cash. I don't want to analyze the he-said-she-said, but I've been up to date since this went viral, and I don't see any logiacl reason that AirBnb would refuse to pay for her expenses.

Think about it logically... rather than emotionally.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#285

Post by lurker14 »

class_vs_object wrote: post #162
jacquesm wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She's had per personal space and privacy violated in a terrible way, and you're passing around her contact details? I passed her contact information to the one guy that I think can keep his head cool enough to solve this in a way that is beneficial to her. You may disagree with that but that's fine with me. > She mentioned in both blog posts that she is trying to keep her personal details private. Yes, and I helped…

> Yes, and I helped her doing just that by pointing out which parts of her blog allow people to figure out who she is. Maybe you think you are doing the right thing - but think about this from EJ's perspective: A stranger contacts her and points out all the ways she can be identified from her blog... he then passes her contact details on to an investor in Airbnb. He goes on hacker news and comments about how easy it…

jacquesm just said that it wasn't a veiled suggestion at all. He pointed out to her that she was publicly identifying herself already.

Considering that EJ was already in communication with AirBnB customer service and CEO, and has been publicly asking for more attention from AirBnB, she wouldn't be too surprised that another one of the founding leaders would get involved.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#286

Post by lurker14 »

coffeemug wrote: post #19

The way many people here jumped to conclusions after the initial AirBnB story based on almost no information is really disheartening. Insulting the founders of the company, the victim, and concocting conspiracy theories based on a few paragraphs of information with barely any evidence is a really poor way to conduct oneself. Most decent people wouldn't do it in face-to-face conversations without getting to know a per…

Quick advice, that has nothing to do with AirBnB specifically:

> I had the opportunity to hear the founders speak a number of times. They're one of the very few founders that are incredibly genuine about bringing a positive change into the lives of their customers.

Don't judge someone's genuineness by listening to them speak or promoting their testimonials. Watch what they actually do.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#287

Post by quanticle »

breck wrote: post #197
jellicle wrote: post #154

Sounds to me like Paul Graham has made a fairly fundamental and common mistake, which is to say believing the AirBnb people when they reassure him that everything is under control and there's no fire here. Paul, if you actually read the statements made by the CEO on news.ycombinator.com, it's very clear that AirBnb are the primary, if not only, ones at fault here. I don't want to call Paul a liar, since it seems like…

> it's very clear that AirBnb are the primary, if not only, ones at fault here. No. Some terrible human being who should be in jail is at fault here. Airbnb and YC are all run by great people. Responding to a crisis like this is never easy. Responding to your first crisis like this is hardest of all. I wouldn't blame Michael Arrington at all, either. I think he's done a great job at reporting this. But it's not his f…

>I used to have a knee jerk reaction and email people asking them to take things down.

And how well did that work out for you (and your dad)? The knee-jerk reaction is as primitive and counterproductive as it is understandable. The AirBnB founders aren't naifs to the Internet. They understand the Streisand Effect. It might be understandable for them to want EJ to take down her blog post. But to actually go out and ask her? That's inviting trouble, and the executives at AirBnB had to have known that.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#288

Post by bheemboy »

felideon wrote: post #177
yycom wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I generally do what I think is right in life Jesus I wish these self-important fucks would stop bragging about how fucking great they are. Actually, just stop talking, all of you. Shut up, and do some fucking work.

While you sit back and watch the show? At least he's _trying_ to do something to help EJ[1] and has enough strut to take this up to pg. It's called compassion, not self righteousness. Also, take your language back to 4chan whence you came. [1] Other than offering pitty.

"It may come as a surprise to you". Which part of this sentence is about compassion and not about self-righteousness?

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#289

Post by samtp »

jacquesm wrote: post #196
thaumaturgy wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call it whatever you like. I call it "interfering", without positive or negative connotation. When you interfere in a situation, with positive intentions, there are all kinds of things you have to consider: 1. The expectations of everyone involved. Does EJ have an expectation of privacy? Could she be expecting to keep her personal life, as much as possible, separate from the whole flap on the internet? Does AirBnB ha…

> Does PG have an expectation of not being dragged into a situation in which he could have involved himself if he so wished? PG dragged himself in to it by standing up for AirBNB's actions in a public forum. He probably should not have done that. > Passing her contact information on to a third party -- regardless of who that party is or why -- without either her permission or that third party's permission, was a rook…

I've read a bunch of your comments about Paul Graham (Hes such a stand up guy!), but what you are completely ignoring is the fact the he is an investor in Airbnb. People keep telling you this fact, but you seem to not understand at all.

First, PG has a financial interest in keeping the company growing strong.

Second and most importantly, if PG intervenes here against the will of other investors, they may not want to invest in future companies where PG is a shareholder. So it is vastly in PG's interest to not act on the contact info you gave him.

Overall, all you did was seriously creep out a vulnerable lady.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#290

Post by samtp »

jacquesm wrote: post #195
jdh wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "more than just another investor" mean? Like everyone here, I'm a PG fan, but I don't know what's being implied. It's okay to connect her to Paul because... - he's smarter than a typical investor? - he's more involved than a typical investor? - he's more wise than a typical investor? If anything, PG and YC are much less involved than a typical investor (VC) when the company is at this stage. No board seat (…

> It's okay to connect her to Paul because... Both EJ and Paul stand to gain from resolving this situation quickly and orderly. And both could lose considerably if this is allowed to drag on much longer and/or hits the mainstream press.

How exactly could she lose as much as PG? It seems that PG is in a situation to lose a lot more. Instead, EJ would likely get public sympathy and help.

This honestly sounds borderline threatening. But judging from your recent actions, I don't expect you to take care with how things are said.

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