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Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

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Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#281
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about quality, but what about quantity? If you need to develop: - the back end for an application - the front end for an application - some external APIs for the application - a structured data storage layer, say, with an RDBMS - an object storage of some sort, for example, on top of S3 - some sort of reporting functionality - mailing list functionality - etc. Then no matter how good your manager is, t…

This is known as the "mythical man month." For some reason software engineering resists more programmers equating to more productivity. I believe this is because of the theoretical and personal nature of programming. We are constructing in our minds ideas about how a system should exist to solve the problems at hand. By adding more programmers, we are adding more ideas, that when ineffectively communicated (certainly…

> ... But that same 10 person startup will likely not see a double in productivity by hiring another 10 programmers. ...

> I hope that you would agree with me that it is feasible for a skilled programmer to accomplish everything in your list in some expedient amount of time, even though it would clearly go faster if he had a buddy to work with.

Agreed. What you're describing above does sound like Brooks's law, which states that adding more manpower to a late project does make it even more late (at least as far as the mindset that you're hinting at goes): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks%27s_law

Or maybe it's simply diminishing returns in your example above, which also seems valid.

For the most part i've observed that in my own experience, however that's not exactly what i'm advocating for. Think more in the direction of Amdahl's law, but applied to the management of tasks within a project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law

There will always be parts of a project which can be done in parallel and therefore should - that's not to say that it's possible to skip out on context for how they'd fit together with the greater solution, assume that all problems are interchangeable or run into any other problematic lines of thinking along the way, yet the possibilities should definitely be covered!

Here's perhaps a better example from my dayjob: There are problems with the Foo view in the application, which are costing X$/month. There are also problems with the Bar reporting functionality in the application, which are costing Y$/month. Furthermore, the system needs a new Baz module developed, which is projected to bring in additional Z$/month. Also, the metrics show that historically there have been ops related issues, so introducting containers into the mix could help save W$/month, as it has already been proven in other projects.

So essentially you have tasks that concern the following functionality: Foo, Bar, Baz and some DevOps stuff. So, if each task takes T amount of time, that'll be 4T in total.

If you have 1 engineer they can probably develop all of that eventually, but all of the tasks will probably be addressed in whatever order they get to them, so it'll therefore also take them 4T.

If you have 4 engineers AND the tasks have little overlap (this is where Amdahl's law makes a difference), they can each work on one of the tasks in parallel, so suddenly 4T becomes 1T.

I think it's clear, which would lead to the highest gain, i.e. X + Y + Z + W.

Of course, people always love to talk in absolutes and noone ever considers the particular circumstances of the projects. For example, in the 1M SLoC Java project that i'm currently working on, a single pizza team is pretty unlikely to step on each other's heels. Even entire features can be developed and delivered separately, without merge conflicts down the road. Whereas on another project that i'm also working on, a much smaller one, i get merge conflicts whenever i'm about to make a pull request to merge changes back into the master branch. Figuring out which project is which and what approaches and design patterns to use to minimize the pains of scaling, that's the hard part.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your arguments are specious; perhaps you're simply angry that you didn't understand an industry you've worked in for a while? Perhaps you're in management, or in the 20% who aren't burnt out, and you're embarrassed by proxy? Psychological experiments and surveys are often done in only one or two days. Why would a wider window of time help when taking a snapshot of a current situation? Hm, is 258 a small sample size?…

Your comment starts with a disingenuous sentence, and continues to show a level of bitterness I've seen before in people who believe themselves to be more knowledgeable/experienced than their surroundings (or they actually are), but never got a chance (or so they believe). I didn't claim to know everything there is to know about statistics and research in general, but I think I know enough to tell that this is not a…

I didn't produce this survey. I just know how to compute confidence intervals. I'm not going to regurgitate the Wikipedia article on confidence intervals at you; it's clear that you don't really want to learn how statistics work, and you'd rather feel smug because you surely know better than to consider a survey of your fellow people.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#283
post #277
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a job where I get to do a lot of the requirements in addition to the development and trust me, it is just more work and I am more burnt out for it.

so what is the root cause? is it just the constant (often fake) urgency, the dull and repetitive nature of sprints and working on tickets, or the volume of work?

Probably a combination of those things + for many, poor lifestyle choices will be an issue

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#284
post #138

I wonder if software presents a unique situation as we generally make a pretty decent salary and to transition to a new career involves a pretty significant pay cut. So some developers become trapped in jobs they hate with golden handcuffs. I really don't enjoy software development at all, but at this stage, to even think about doing something else would result in a massive pay cut. I did it once when I was younger,…

> since then I just exist in a constant state of burnout The worst part is that even that doesn’t seem to matter. Whether I do my best work because I’m 100% into the job, or my worst because I just cannot be bothered any more, people perceive me the same way, and my salary remains the same. If the effect is nil why should I even bother.

This is true for many jobs.

Roofer? Car mechanic? Yeah most customers won't know the difference. Burger flipper drops one on the floor. Toss it or put it back? Nobody knows.

This goes right up to CEOs - it's hard to _really_ evaluate performance. Stock price is a lagging indicator of company health.

The reasons to try to do a "whole-ass job" (its ok to phone it in, just do it solid) for me are:

a) It's what I'd like others to do when they do stuff for me and b) I think it's psychologically safer, long term.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a teacher (and a manager, all levels of software engineer up to principal, a construction worker, an inner-city and high gang-presence high school math teacher, a graphic designer, and worked under a yard maintenance guy from Mexico, and several other small jobs. The software stuff has been among the easiest jobs (even with mission critical systems failing in the middle of the night affecting millions of do…

On the same logic, you can find tons of other 'easier' jobs that still experience burnout or boreout. What you're unconsciously doing is a form of the `fallacy of relative privation`. Sure, software engineering is an easier job than resident doctors or inner city math teachers or whatever. That doesn't mean it doesn't come with it's own baggage/challenges/frustrations/mental health issues and that engineers don't get…

Your life isn't just your job. And your other qualities influence your career choice. Software attracts different people than law and medicine and teaching. If I had to bet, for example, I would guess that loneliness is more common among software engineers than lawyers, doctors, and teachers.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#286
post #232

This is just what it's like to work a repetitive desk job. I imagine it's similar for lawyers and accountants.

There is some misery inherent to sitting on the dark side of a sunny window for the privilege of doing it all again the next day.

I've had fun doing it and been miserable doing it. It depends on the work and opportunity for creativity/impact.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would go as far as to say school is industrial daycare. Asserting that schools provide value to society because people learn things within their boundaries is, in my opinion, like saying that caffeine pills provide value to tired people by helping them stay awake. It's not wrong per se, but it's a hackneyed solution that doesn't address the root cause of the problem. "Our citizens are illiterate and don't understan…

> The "foundational social concepts" children learn in school are taught to them by full-time teachers I disagree. Many (most) of the social concepts that children learn in school are not taught by teachers, they're taught through interactions with other students, with the teachers providing guard rails. They're completely orthogonal to the curriculum. There are certainly plenty of myths repeated in classrooms by tea…

I in turn disagree with you. Children learn social norms and practices through interaction with other children, sure. Social concepts, like "what is a country", "what is the most ethical legal system", "what is the history of our nation", "what is the right way to interact with other people", "should I go to school", "should I respect authority" are taught by teachers and administrators, who provide the explanation of the concepts and the punishment for when the kids disagree with the concepts, which they do often because the "concepts" pushed by school systems are ridiculous to the point of being inhumane.

The public comments section on any news story is inundated with people who spent a large portion of their lives in school. When they were in school, they were taught to respect authority, keep their heads down, specialize in a certain field, and accept wage labor conditions for the rest of their lives. They were also taught that proper education starts with an authority and is handed down via lectures and tests, and other kinds of knowledge are not valuable unless certified by another authority endorsed by the school system. This is true whether they went to a public school or to a private religious one- the "authority" the children are supposed to listen to just changes. Kids don't teach each other these lessons, the school system does.

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#289
post #2

If you were a professional painter and every couple of months, someone snuck into your art studio, threw out all your brushes, paint, canvas, and then dumped a huge load of requests for you to "fix" your old paintings, I'm pretty sure you'd get burned out pretty quick.

The difference is that if you were a professional painter you'd also have a second job in order to survive.

More painters should take the Thomas Kinkade-pill and create art for the masses!

Re: Study finds 83% of software developers feel burnout

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment starts with a disingenuous sentence, and continues to show a level of bitterness I've seen before in people who believe themselves to be more knowledgeable/experienced than their surroundings (or they actually are), but never got a chance (or so they believe). I didn't claim to know everything there is to know about statistics and research in general, but I think I know enough to tell that this is not a…

I didn't produce this survey. I just know how to compute confidence intervals. I'm not going to regurgitate the Wikipedia article on confidence intervals at you; it's clear that you don't really want to learn how statistics work, and you'd rather feel smug because you surely know better than to consider a survey of your fellow people.

Just read other replies. I'm not going regurgitate other comments to you. You're clearly way more annoyed by this than average. I don't feel like this is worth engaging with anymore.
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