We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments • Hacker News Board

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#281

Post by danenania » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #248

handmodel wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber and Lyft are 100% a win though. - It is now cheaper for the average person to get a ride to an airport/bar than it was before. It is safer, more predictable with timing, and more predictable with pricing. - Uber drivers make more money today than taxi drivers used to/or do today. There are also way more job openings in this than there used to be, with less friction to get involved. The world is not a zero sum ga…

> It is now cheaper for the average person to get a ride to an airport/bar than it was before. On average, in certain locations. In others, not so much. And let's not forget surge pricing. Or people living, or wanting to get to a place, along low-profit routes. Or people with disabilities. > more predictable with pricing Depends. Regular taxis tended to cost a bit more, but had much lower variance. > Uber drivers mak…

The alternative to surge pricing before rideshare was pretty much just not being able to find a taxi, unless you happened to get extremely lucky. Have you ever tried to hail a cab in Manhattan right after it starts to rain?

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#282

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

dempsey wrote: post #253

__sy__ wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh right! Yeah it's pretty neat actually (for anyone interested[1]). Unfortunately, it does require physical presence/labor (i.e. $$$) by whoever has the master reset tool. For Airbnb's or even self-tours, that's kind of a non-starter. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5MQz3JjZl8&ab_channel=Kwiks...

When you perform a move out or move in inspection, you change the key. It's super easy. The reset tool can fit in your wallet or glove compartment. It's a big change versus having to change the cylinder as in the past. Having to manage a load of electronic locks is likely more costly. Again, this is long-term rentals not short-term. As for self-tours, they make electronic lockboxes. They've been around forever and us…

[deleted]

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#283

Post by dempsey » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

__sy__ wrote: post #270

dempsey wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you perform a move out or move in inspection, you change the key. It's super easy. The reset tool can fit in your wallet or glove compartment. It's a big change versus having to change the cylinder as in the past. Having to manage a load of electronic locks is likely more costly. Again, this is long-term rentals not short-term. As for self-tours, they make electronic lockboxes. They've been around forever and us…

I'm not going to try to convince you that key-exchanges are bad for short-lived visits (whether electronic lockboxes or not). We just know from experience doing millions of these for a large company that this is very problematic at times and you're better off with a remote controlled solutions that doesn't involve anyone having any physical key.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm referring to long-term rentals. Your initial post doesn't make such a distinction.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#284

Post by Auracle » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:04 PM UTC

kodt wrote: post #276

handmodel wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber and Lyft are 100% a win though. - It is now cheaper for the average person to get a ride to an airport/bar than it was before. It is safer, more predictable with timing, and more predictable with pricing. - Uber drivers make more money today than taxi drivers used to/or do today. There are also way more job openings in this than there used to be, with less friction to get involved. The world is not a zero sum ga…

Your first point was true, pre-pandemic. But is no longer true, at least not universally true. In some areas Uber and Lyft are now prohibitively expensive. What was once a $15 trip is now $40-50. You are better off going back to traditional taxi companies. They have also become very unreliable, with no available drivers in some areas or 40+ minute wait times, and then the driver cancels. The majority of drivers switc…

That’ll all fix itself pretty quickly once the federal unemployment benefits stop, other than prices being somewhat higher due to fuel costs.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#285

Post by bko » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #248

handmodel wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber and Lyft are 100% a win though. - It is now cheaper for the average person to get a ride to an airport/bar than it was before. It is safer, more predictable with timing, and more predictable with pricing. - Uber drivers make more money today than taxi drivers used to/or do today. There are also way more job openings in this than there used to be, with less friction to get involved. The world is not a zero sum ga…

> It is now cheaper for the average person to get a ride to an airport/bar than it was before. On average, in certain locations. In others, not so much. And let's not forget surge pricing. Or people living, or wanting to get to a place, along low-profit routes. Or people with disabilities. > more predictable with pricing Depends. Regular taxis tended to cost a bit more, but had much lower variance. > Uber drivers mak…

> On average, in certain locations. In others, not so much. And let's not forget surge pricing. Or people living, or wanting to get to a place, along low-profit routes. Or people with disabilities.

You can always take a regular cab. Low profit routes were pretty much impossible to get pre-Uber. I am almost certain that Uber is more likely to obey disability laws than "Joe's taxi" with a few cars.

> Depends. Regular taxis tended to cost a bit more, but had much lower variance.

My experience with cabs is calling a dispatcher while in route and getting a price. I was charged $30 for a two mile trip to the train station before. No reasoning. Also they were much less likely to pick up minority passengers, or people in poorer neighborhoods. Also "credit card machine was broken" very often. Also you don't know the route the driver will take. I guess my experience with cabs pre-Uber was different from yours, but it was incredibly high variance.

> That seems implausible at best.

Many places you had a gatekeeper. You can't just ride a taxi, and would have to purchase a medallion or sign on to an existing vendor where there's much less competition. They would also be much less flexible with hours

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#286

Post by handmodel » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

enumjorge wrote: post #277

TeMPOraL wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is now cheaper for the average person to get a ride to an airport/bar than it was before. On average, in certain locations. In others, not so much. And let's not forget surge pricing. Or people living, or wanting to get to a place, along low-profit routes. Or people with disabilities. > more predictable with pricing Depends. Regular taxis tended to cost a bit more, but had much lower variance. > Uber drivers mak…

Yeah I don’t understand the parent comment’s gushing take on Uber/Lyft. I consider them a net positive but they are hardly a 100% win. In my area prices shot up from what they were 1-2 years ago, and many drivers barely break even (if they do) once you take into account maintenance costs on the car they drive.

Do you think taxi drivers are making more money than uber drivers considering they:

- Taxi drivers (outside of NYC) in the US are going to get less rides per hour than uber drivers

- Taxi drivers traditionally have to give a larger share to the taxi company than uber drives give to Uber. If they are independent then they have identical car expenses as an uber driver.

I 100% believe that a lot of Uber drivers barely break even. I guess I'm fine with that - I bet if you try to do that 9-5 and can't do your own car maintenance you are going to be inefficient at it. I had a friend in Los Angeles who would only work nights, was fine working 2am, and could do basic tire/oil/car repair. He made 2x what he had been making as a busboy at a restaurant. I don't see why this is considered a bad option for people, especially since he enjoyed the flexibility.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#287

Post by vkou » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:06 PM UTC

handmodel wrote: post #206

boringg wrote: post #159

Caretaker: The redfin of brokers. Take all the value for themselves freeze out the brokers (who provide a service but are universally disdained). Ride that wave of positive news for a couples years. Eventually everyone will hate the fraction of the market Caretaker has as they raise prices to make investors happy and people realize there are problems. It's like the same idea of Uber and Lyft. Less human involvement =…

Uber and Lyft are 100% a win though. - It is now cheaper for the average person to get a ride to an airport/bar than it was before. It is safer, more predictable with timing, and more predictable with pricing. - Uber drivers make more money today than taxi drivers used to/or do today. There are also way more job openings in this than there used to be, with less friction to get involved. The world is not a zero sum ga…

> - It is now cheaper for the average person to get a ride to an airport/bar than it was before. It is safer, more predictable with timing, and more predictable with pricing.

This is no longer true. In my town, now that the firehose of VC subsidies has dried up, Uber costs more than taking a cab, even without surge pricing.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#288

Post by munificent » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

988747 wrote: post #65

munificent wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It addresses the principle-agent problem[0]. Yes, renters that want a broker may simply raise the rent to pay for it, but doing so affects their own bottom line because either (1) it's harder to find a renter at that higher price or (2) they could have found a renter without a broker and pocketed the higher rent themselves. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal%E2%80%93agent_proble...

Both of those things happen regardless of who formally pays the fee: one side of the transaction has a desirable good (apartment) the other side only has money to bargain with, so it's obvious from who's pocket the fee will come from. Many times the buyer would openly raise that argument in negotiations: "You know, I have all those fees to pay, can you lower the rent a bit?". It's not like sellers are completely obli…

> so it's obvious from who's pocket the fee will come from.

Yes. The problem is that the one whose pocket the money comes from is not the one who selects the broker. Thus the person with the financial incentive to make that choice wisely is not the one making the choice. This is why it's a principle-agent problem.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#289

Post by handmodel » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #273

handmodel wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love a carbon tax but if that existed I don't see how you can blame Uber for making society worse. In additions to all the economic gains you talk about it has saved thousands of lives a year due to less drunk driving. Additionally, it has enabled millions of people in cities to skip buying a new car/any car which saves tons of emissions. More predictable as in you know the fair before you get in. I did have…

> how you can blame Uber for making society worse There's a long, long, long list of reasons Uber has screwed over great many people, and continues to. From regulatory arbitrage, duping drivers into unprofitable deals, lack of proper insurance, privacy violations, harassing journalists, harassing employees... This has been covered non-stop on HN for pretty much a decade now. I invite you to do some searching, and you…

As crazy as early Uber was I still have trouble believing that taxi companies are more deserving or were better to their employees or less corrupt. There's no evidence.

I guess if you prefer being able to ballpark a taxi cost then that's cool! You can still use taxis. But most people prefer to see the price before they get in. Certainly the choice existing is better for the consumer and has helped keep taxi fares lower - even if you choose not to use an uber.

Re: We replaced rental brokers with software and filled 200 vacant apartments

#290

Post by dempsey » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

EricE wrote: post #170

benmanns wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a recommendation on a quality smart lock for home use? Some ideal mix of security, style, open/compatible software.

The same company that provided the lockboxes from the original article has smart locks that use the same rotating one time code mechanism - and the locks don't require internet connectivity. A huge plus! https://www.igloohome.co/en-us/ I have had zero interest in using other smart locks - especially ones that require network connectivity of any sort, but this might be one that would be worth considering.

This is interesting. Thx. The problem we've always had with smart locks at scale is connectivity headaches, which require a technical person as advanced or more than a locksmith.