‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#281

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #249

wil421 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you need some hobbies. Most of the things you state I get from my hobbies. Do you not live in a place with climate control? At home I make the temperature decisions not the facility folk.

Well, the PNW just had record temps for three days straight (100+ F is unheard of with avg Seattle July highs of 77) and AC is an uncommon residential amenity that is usually offered at large offices. Does the office run the AC a bit cold? Yes, but to be honest when you reach almost too hot to sweat that's a nice problem to have.

Given someone is working a white collar, air conditioned office job, I would guess their probability of having AC at home is north of 90%.

https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/air...

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#282

Post by philote » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

brandmeyer wrote: post #217

acituan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without due speculation we could only talk about fully established facts. That would make a very infertile conversation. Also you should have more trust for your fellows in dialogue here, that they do have some immune function against misinformation viruses.

My experience in the software industry is that engineers are just as susceptible to misinformation as everyone else. It is the exact same process which reinforces beliefs in flat-earth, anti-vax, chiropractic, homeopathy, the stolen-election narrative, and other such nonsense. A number of folks are asking the question, "why does the HN consensus appear to be so far away from my experience?" I think the answer is real…

I hope you see the irony in this. Many of your comments, including this one I'm replying to, have "I think ..." which is really just speculation.

I mean, you say "It is the exact same process which reinforces beliefs in flat-earth, anti-vax, chiropractic, homeopathy, the stolen-election narrative, and other such nonsense.". But is that true? How do you know? Do you have all the facts? I'm sure it seems reasonable and matches what others think...

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#283

Post by drclau » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #120

dcolkitt wrote: post #15

I’m honestly perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH. Sure it could all work out fine for them. Maybe employees will grumble for a bit, then settle back into office life. But maybe it wont’t . There’s a very real possibility that you lose a non-negligible percent of your staff (disproportionately the most talented who have other options), handicap your ability to…

> perplexed what the FANGs are even thinking in being so aggressive about pushing an end to WFH I think the divide between WFH and return to the office boils down to something surprisingly simple: how much longer does your current lease last and/or how much office property do you own. Companies that are about to have a lease expire, or are growing at a rate that they would need to soon lease an even larger building a…

> I think the divide between WFH and return to the office boils down to something surprisingly simple: how much longer does your current lease last and/or how much office property do you own.

Something I need to point out: the office is still cheaper to run when empty, even if the corporation pays the lease. And as far as I know, no company pays extra for working from home, in fact the opposite seems to be sometimes true. So I don't think your assessment holds.

I think the most important factor is... management. Managers just feel they lose the control. Maybe some are even afraid they will become irrelevant.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#284

Post by munificent » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

srswtf123 wrote: post #192

throwaway743 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, your examples of organizations are homogeneous in their nature, and borderline cult level communal. Unless you're in management or one of those workers who's an over zealous corporate kool-aid drinking yes-man who screams about company culture and has substituted any outside social life with the office and coworkers, these examples might be extreme and irrelevant. We're all slowly dying, and personally, I val…

> I value having more control over what little time I have left alive This right here is the entire argument. It's about control , and nothing more. The pandemic displaced a large group of socially successful people from the social hierarchy. Those people want to return to the old normal because they want their status back. They want control back. "You'll do what you're told because I said so, that's why." lies at th…

I don't necessarily mean this in the context here of "work for a corporation" but one thing I have learned recently (thanks, therapy) is that one can lean too far in the direction of individual autonomy.

At a base level, everyone wants a meaningful, fulfilled life. A key component of that is having enough autonomy and control to feel that your decisions matter because they are your decisions. But another important component is to feel that your decisions matter because they matter to others. We are a social primate species and for most of us, our emotional systems are wired to feel the greatest peace when we feel we are helping our tribe and being supported by it in return.

Being part of a group (job or not) where you feel your efforts help not just you but the entire group is deeply important for most people. There's a reason that male suicide rates skyrocket not long after retirement. We are not happy alone and disconnected, even though being in that state in theory maximizes our personal autonomy.

Obviously, this is not to imply that a job is the only or best way to find that kind of tribe or group identity. But there are meaningful jobs out there and working together can be an important part of a fulfilling life.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#285

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

mahogany wrote: post #243

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard for people to have less money to spend when there's 5x as much M1 [1], and 32% more M2 [2], and for the entirety of the last year - the personal savings rate was at an all time high [3]. People have more money now than ever before. I wouldn't expect a reduction in commerce in aggregate because ~3% of the workforce quit temporarily or even permanently. I won't be surprised if inflation gets so high that ther…

How did the M1 supply increase $12+ trillion? That's surprising to me, especially when it doesn't include bank reserves, and anyway it's much more than even the total amount of quantitative easing from what I can tell.

The Fed's balance sheet increased by $4T.

Federal deficit was $3.1T

Bank lending for mortgage originations increases M1 - this increased by over $1T.

Total = $8.1T

Since the Fed bought most of the government's debt, though, a lot of that $3.1T government deficit should be included in the $4T balance sheet increase of the Fed.

So this could possibly only account for half of it. I'm not sure.

Other personal debt (which includes auto loans) isn't even up another $1T. Margin debt in stocks is up $260Bn. Anyone else know what the rest is?

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#286

Post by acchow » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #245

awsthro00945 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Relying on your employer for these items seems unwise. Why? Work is where you spend one third (or more) of your time during your adult life. Why the hell would I not want such a significant portion of my life to not also provide great benefits like opportunities to make friends, meet people, eat great food, and have fun? If you scoff at people who want to make their workplaces more welcoming and happier, no shit th…

Because you might get fired or laid off or burnt out and leave and only then discover that you have invested too much of yourself into this faceless entity that does not care a whit about you. This is one of those things where peoples' warnings to the young come from hard won experience, but where it doesn't sound right to people who have not themselves yet gained the experience. So we fail to impart the lessons and…

> Because you might get fired or laid off or burnt out and leave and only then discover that you have invested too much of yourself into this faceless entity that does not care a whit about you.

I think how much you invest into this faceless entity is independent from whether you WFH or the office, no?

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

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Post by xj9 » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

achow wrote: post #166

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

From a single, young: I miss the office for.. - Free and convenient food. - Social chatter & engagement. - Making friends with employees who I don't know and connecting with new employees. - Work life separation (balance). - Proper workstation, climate controlled environment. - Sense of belonging - team outing, after hours beers.. - Intra and inter company sports and games. - Meeting potential dates. [Not me. Just em…

i'm not anti-social at work. i'm friendly and it can be fun to shoot the shit, but i've rarely had workmates turn into real friends. i don't know why, but the people i tend to connect with don't often work in the same industry. i know how to keep work and home separate (i have a couple of ways of setting work context for myself so i have a way to leave when i'm done).

the only good thing about working at an office is the free food, but food isn't terribly expensive anyway. i could probably use transport savings to buy myself a nice food every week or two.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#288

Post by hintymad » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

This is what I got from 1-on-1s with my coworkers too. Clear separation: Single people want to go back to office. People who have families do not.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#289

Post by vuldin » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

Many look at this current situation and draw conclusions around how much office-centered work employees are willing to put up with, which is great. But others are looking at this as an opportunity... workers leaving companies means openings at those companies.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#290

Post by philote » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

jensensbutton wrote: post #232

philote wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the pandemic FANGs seemed to want everyone in the office as much as possible. That's why they have their own cafeterias/restaurants, daycare, workout rooms, etc. They wanted employees in the office, working a minimum of 40 hours a week. I'm guessing even though remote work is going fine for now, they're concerned they're not going to be able to keep getting over 40 hours of week out of employees. (This is conj…

At my FAANG they did studies and on average people are working MORE hours each day since the switch to WFH. If they were concerned about maximizing hours then they'd leave it as in. I suspect there are other concerns.

There could definitely be other concerns too. Such as security. It'd be much easier for someone to copy a code base, or get evidence of wrongdoing by your employer, or whatever, when at home rather than in an office. It's also harder to secure all your employees' home networks than one office network. But I wonder how many people who work at offices still bring their laptops home to use.