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Microsoft announces Windows 11

theverge.com

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Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#281

Post by acwan93 »

MarcScott wrote: post #83
jl6 wrote: post #66

So many questions… Will Win10 users be able to upgrade to Win11 for free or will they have to buy it? What’s the end-of-life date for Win10 now? Will the minimum hardware requirements be increased? Will this be used as an opportunity to make backwards-compatibility-breaking improvements? Are they actually going to fix the whole UI or just 80% of it and leave the remaining 20% as sedimentary layers of previous UIs? An…

Some answers here - https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22546801/microsoft-window...

More details here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifica...

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#282

Post by JoshTriplett »

cjaybo wrote: post #257
JoshTriplett wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software developers around the world don't have to build software compatible with your old car, and get blamed for any incompatibility. There have already been posts showing that there's an option to put the start menu back on the left if you want that. Hopefully there will be options to deal with other inconveniences. As it stands, this already looks like it fixes many of the complaints people had about Windows 10;…

As an audio application developer who still supports users on OSX 10.6.8, I have to ask, what is this about "Windows was the last OS to move to the evergreen model"? Do the breaking changes in MacOS version updates somehow not count anymore? If developers don't want to support multiple versions of an OS, there are plenty of domains where that isn't an issue. The desktop seems like a weird place to complain about this…

I'm not suggesting that apps should drop such support instantaneously or gratuitously. Rather, I'm just suggesting that in the normal course of development, as an OS version becomes sufficiently old and has genuine issues that make support non-trivial, and if the upgrade to a newer version is free and automatic (so it's reasonable to expect people to upgrade), an app developer may at some point say "we expect at least this OS version; if you're using an older version, you're welcome to try, but we don't test on those OS versions so we can't offer any support or respond to bug reports from those OS versions".

I absolutely believe that the "you're welcome to try" part of that is important, assuming there's no known issue (which there may sometimes be). Developers also have an upper bound on available support bandwidth. I don't think apps (or websites) should prevent users from even trying, unless there's some specific technical reason (e.g. a known incompatibility that's producing substantial support burden just to triage, or a library or API that simply doesn't exist on the older version). I do think it's reasonable to say "please upgrade and try again, and if you're still experiencing the issue we'll take a look".

Along the same lines, if a user reports an issue to a website where it doesn't function properly in Chrome 12, or Firefox 9, it's entirely reasonable for the site to respond with "please upgrade, we don't support outdated browsers". It's a little more questionable for a site to say that about a version released the previous month, unless the site is a tech demo for bleeding-edge technology. But at no point do I think a site should actually block users attempting to use older browsers; at most, it's reasonable to show a "not supported or tested, might not work" message.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#283

Post by wongarsu »

pram wrote: post #76
MarcScott wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be wrong (not a developer), but I thought within the official stores, in-app purchases were subject to 30%, as standard, going to the platform provider. At least that's what I understand with regard to Apple and Google stores.

You can install software on Windows and MacOS outside of the app stores jfyi

But now you can have your Windows Store presence and still keep all your money.

Of course that's easy to offer while nobody uses the Windows Store, but e.g. on MacOS that would be quite a big deal.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#284

Post by WorldMaker »

eitland wrote: post #170
lp0_on_fire wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's bad design in the sense that they took a part of the operating system that's been in the same place for a quarter century and moved it for seemingly no reason while leaving a bunch of other neglected issues to be dealt with later. I guess fixing the damned control panel and various settings apps isn't sexy enough. Frankly this whole update stinks of "oh we hired a bunch of new MBAs and they have to make their ma…

> and moved it for seemingly no reason There is one good reason: some screens are getting really wide.

Right, which is more reason to move to vertical taskbars instead of filling far too many pixels with useless space. The specification note that 11 won't support vertical taskbars is infuriating as someone with an ultrawide. I don't need 1000s of pixels of unusable taskbar white space. Centering it is smart if I did want to waste all that space, but oof I do not want to waste that much space.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#285

Post by moogly »

tummulfingur wrote: post #166
Semaphor wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lacking the ability to position on any other screen edge? I didn’t watch the video, and your question mark gives me hope: Was this actually said? A horizontal taskbar would be horrible.

You have been able to move the task bar to left/right screen edges for years. If your task bar is not locked, just click and drag it to the window edges. A feature to Left align the buttons has been shown in the leaked builds.

> You have been able to move the task bar to left/right screen edges for years

Since Windows 95, even.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#286

Post by zamalek »

Black101 wrote: post #241
satysin wrote: post #94

So to summerize what they have announced (so far) - * A new look task bar. Centred similar to the macOS dock by default but lacking the ability to position on any other screen edge? * A new start menu design * Windows have rounded corners * Some built in apps such as the Xbox app and Microsoft Store have been redesigned (Xbox Game Pass and xCloud built into the Xbox app) * New touch keyboard (SwiftKey?) with improved…

> * TPM 2.0 and UEFI are hardware requirements. No legacy BIOS compatibility at all? Could they try to block Linux installs? > * There is a universal mute button in the system tray so you can mute yourself system wide rather than in the app You could always click the speaker and mute it system-wide

> Could they try to block Linux installs?

Linux works just fine with UEFI, that's how I have it installed on all my machines.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#287

Post by marcthe12 »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #125
_benj wrote: post #49

I honestly was expecting more "innovation", more daring decisions and deep convictions that "this new way", even though it might get some backlash, will prove to improve the wellbeing of it's users, even if they don't know it yet. I haven't seen anything like that since the days of Steven Jobs and it kind of saddens me. Have we reached a plateau in tech? Are we just up for making more of the same, just a little diffe…

I was hoping 11 would get rid of a bunch of old Windows backwards compatibility cruft. Make Windows 10 the long-run version and Windows 11 the forward looking one. Almost like what Apple did with Mac OS X.

Well did drop 32 bit and bios. So they probably dropped a huge chunk of kernel code

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#288

Post by literallyaduck »

Every time this happens someone says fuck it and installs Linux. After two weeks some of them come back, but the Linux market share grows.

I want an OS that stays current on security patches, attempts to be as unobtrusive as possible, allows for Desktop Environment customization but has sane defaults. I don't want special integrations. The OS should follow single responsibility and defer special functionality to app developers.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#289

Post by OGWhales »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #70
fader wrote: post #5

Putting the start menu button in the middle of the panel rather than at a corner seems to forget Fitts' Law. Is this a push to make people use hotkeys more or just bad design?

It's bad design in the sense that they took a part of the operating system that's been in the same place for a quarter century and moved it for seemingly no reason while leaving a bunch of other neglected issues to be dealt with later. I guess fixing the damned control panel and various settings apps isn't sexy enough. Frankly this whole update stinks of "oh we hired a bunch of new MBAs and they have to make their ma…

I cracked up at the video where he says "the start is centered... it puts YOU at the center" like no, you're clearly just trying to copy MacOS.

I could see it being easier to hit for tablets when it's not in the corner, but I find the corner a good spot for things like that on a regular desktop.. Granted, I always use the windows key on my keyboard but the other corner button, the one that minimizing everything, I use all the time. Very easy to mindlessly drag your cursor to the corner IMO.

Some of the other design features I really enjoy, but I would love a unified and sensible control panel before anything else.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#290

Post by lp0_on_fire »

eitland wrote: post #170
lp0_on_fire wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's bad design in the sense that they took a part of the operating system that's been in the same place for a quarter century and moved it for seemingly no reason while leaving a bunch of other neglected issues to be dealt with later. I guess fixing the damned control panel and various settings apps isn't sexy enough. Frankly this whole update stinks of "oh we hired a bunch of new MBAs and they have to make their ma…

> and moved it for seemingly no reason There is one good reason: some screens are getting really wide.

I swear nobody at Microsoft (and fewer people than I'd hoped on HN) actually talk to non-technical people that use their products.

If they'd just added the option to move it I'd have no qualms but they decided to make it default and I'd be willing to put money down that the overwhelming majority of Windows users do not have super widescreen displays.

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