Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

upi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 673 posts

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#281

Post by blisterpeanuts »

whoooooo123 wrote: post #244
rsj_hn wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning plastic straws, asserting that men should compete against women in sports if they identify as women, and eliminating SAT scores doesn't seem like a science-driven approach, but more of a faith-based science-denialism.

Genuine question: what's wrong with banning plastic straws? Edit: I know that paper straws are a pain to drink through, my question was more: why is banning plastic straws an example of "faith-based science denialism"?

Tangentially, has anyone developed a good use for old plastic straws? Like melting them down to 3D printer filament, or maybe just switch to corn/soy based plastic that is biodegradable within a reasonable time? Paper and metal are just not good substitutes. I think some of the "anti-big government" sentiment comes from banning very useful items without some sort of acceptable substitute.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#282

Post by throwaway0a5e »

URSpider94 wrote: post #85
mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

I would love to see the data, but from the data I have seen, the data conflict with the popular (populist) narrative. A lot of people in America seem to believe that the hardworking "real Americans" in the middle of the country are subsidizing the poorly-run coastal liberal enclaves. In reality, the money almost always flows in the other direction; taxpayers in cities are subsidizing the rural-dwellers. This has noth…

The whole "who's subsidizing who" is a bullshit talking point for both sides.

The net inflows/outflows from any given state aren't that big on a per capita basis. They're small enough that anyone who either wants to not have to be told what to do by big city liberals or doesn't want to be held back by rural conservatives that would consider it a small price to pay for freedom.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#283

Post by jfengel »

kingsuper20 wrote: post #261
jfengel wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds to me like it would create a ton of redundancy, as different organizations reimplement nearly-identical policies. And then it creates a ton of uncertainty. A different thread was already complaining about the uncertainty of whether children can inherit debts from their parents, which varies from state to state. Is it really a boon to have it vary county by county? "Simpler" would generally be to centraliz…

The natural endgame for that is to place all governmental function at the federal level.

I'll be honest, I do find it kinda weird that we have 50 different definitions of "murder" in the US, and a lawyer from the next state over is legally forbidden from helping you out if they haven't also studied for your state.

And I find it equally weird that each separate state gets to define health care regulations, such that separate companies are required in each different state. Lots of duplicated efforts.

There are certainly some functions that are best managed locally, and I suppose there must be some value to the "laboratory of the states" notion (though there are way, way too many variables for any of these experiments to actually be informative).

But in general, yeah, there's a bunch of stuff that I'd just as soon see pushed up rather than down. It would save a lot of headaches. There is surely some stuff that could be pushed down, as well.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#284

Post by klyrs »

buzzert wrote: post #271
joshka wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do instead?

In my city (San Francisco), the Tenderloin is nationally famous for having an "open-air drug market", which means a place you can go to _buy_ drugs with impunity. It also happens to be one of the most dystopian parts of the city, rampent with crime, overdoses, unsanitary conditions, and needles everywhere. It seems like any rational person could see the connection between drugs and the dystopian aspects of the Tender…

> I would make it impossible for them to acquire drugs and deal with the consequences of withdrawl.

Depending on the drug and the severity of their addiction, that could kill them. Would you take it that far?

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#285

Post by _-david-_ »

whoooooo123 wrote: post #244
rsj_hn wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning plastic straws, asserting that men should compete against women in sports if they identify as women, and eliminating SAT scores doesn't seem like a science-driven approach, but more of a faith-based science-denialism.

Genuine question: what's wrong with banning plastic straws? Edit: I know that paper straws are a pain to drink through, my question was more: why is banning plastic straws an example of "faith-based science denialism"?

Paper straws don't work well if you take too long to drink or if you are drinking something thick.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#286

Post by light_hue_1 »

CountDrewku wrote: post #263
hackyhacky wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reading comprehension skills are terrible. 1. In this hypothetical situation, the cheaper food comes from abroad, now that there are no import tariffs. 2. I never said subsidies aren't necessary: I don't know how you can infer that point from what I wrote. I said that subsidies exist to protect American farmers, so American farmers should stop complaining about those who fund them. American farming is as profita…

I think you need to read up on why the subsidies were started in the first place because you're obviously clueless. The rest of your argument is laden with all sorts of cognitive dissonance. Subsidies are given for things like food because if a society doesn't of have food it's a really bad thing so the government props up the industry in bad times (in this case during the Great Depression) and we don't starve. It's…

Yeah, you should definitely read up on how farming subsidies came about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_policy_of_the_Uni...

Food got so stupidly cheap it makes no sense to grow it in the US anymore. So farmers demanded that people in cities pay for their lifestyles out of our taxes. And then they go around being entitled about it.

I've had enough of farm welfare queens. Get farmers off of welfare and let us import food from places that can grow it competitively. If we can't make up the other 85% from somewhere else, that's great, then US farmers will show that they can grow food at a reasonable place without welfare.

These hateful people that survive on the welfare handouts from cityfolk and then turn around and vote for Republican idiots like Trump have gone too far. Time to cut them off.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#287

Post by mensetmanusman »

mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

It is always about power.

No reason to make it so complicated.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#288

Post by dumbfoundded »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #209
dumbfoundded wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of democracy is to vote to change things you don't like about your government. I don't agree with them but I respect their right to vote on it. I wouldn't respect or legitimize a violent insurrection.

>I wouldn't respect or legitimize a violent insurrection. You know that's how the US was formed, right?

It's almost like different situations are different. Violence has been a part of Oregonian state politics for a long time and as recently as within the last 12 months (1). I certainly do not condone nor support the violence of the far-right in the place where I've spent the majority of my life.

I would love to learn about your perspective though. What deep issues do you think require violence in this situation? Do you support their right to leave the state violently if the state legislature doesn't let them? What level of insurrection do you think is okay? Are they just allowed to defend themselves within their county or are they justified attacking the state government outside of their lands?

I'm excited to hear your response. I'm sure you're trying to add to the conversation and I can't wait to learn from you.

(1) https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/01/oregon-state...

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#289

Post by buzzert »

klyrs wrote: post #284
buzzert wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my city (San Francisco), the Tenderloin is nationally famous for having an "open-air drug market", which means a place you can go to _buy_ drugs with impunity. It also happens to be one of the most dystopian parts of the city, rampent with crime, overdoses, unsanitary conditions, and needles everywhere. It seems like any rational person could see the connection between drugs and the dystopian aspects of the Tender…

> I would make it impossible for them to acquire drugs and deal with the consequences of withdrawl. Depending on the drug and the severity of their addiction, that could kill them. Would you take it that far?

Absolutely not, but we have tools at our disposal for that as well (Methadone comes to mind).

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#290

Post by [deleted] »

catgary wrote: post #252
not2b wrote: post #220

The US constitution requires that, for this to happen, Congress, the Oregon legislature, and the Idaho legislature must all agree. There's no provision that it is a matter that local country residents get to decide.

Would Oregon necessarily be against this? This seems like a great way to (a) get rid of nut jobs from the state legislature, and (b) get rid of a bunch of counties that sinkholes (financially speaking).

[deleted]
Post reply on HN