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I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

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Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#281

Post by huggybear »

MattGaiser wrote: post #23

> Furthermore, if you really want a C++ developer you can just expect a developer to learn C++ on the job if they have any adjacent experience with any other language. Is this really accurate? C++ is a very different language than even Java, not to mention Python or JS. Languages have their own quirks and attributes that often matter at some point. Especially C++. I am on a team where we are constantly building stuff…

I've been writing C++ for like 15 years now and still need to visit Stack Overflow 500 times a day to do my job. It is not a language somebody picks up on the job.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#282

Post by pjerem »

nradov wrote: post #233
pas wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are different markets. It's easy to hire full remote juniors on upwork for next to nothing. Hiring a senior staff superhero full-cyber stack-ninja who happily relocates to where you are... now that's not that easy. And thus on the low end you have a market glut and on the high end you have a shortage.

But that's still not a shortage. The government hasn't imposed a wage cap. Employers can just increase wages to the market rate.

Yes if you have infinite money. Do you ?

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#284

Post by trainsplanes »

shp0ngle wrote: post #224

This is a barely readable rant. > Furthermore, if you really want a C++ developer you can just expect a developer to learn C++ on the job if they have any adjacent experience with any other language. Yeah nope Any language takes at least 3-5 years to fully master. Sure, the "10 years in X technology" posts are sometimes insane, but... also, there is a real, factual difference between "I worked with technology X once"…

> Any language takes at least 3-5 years to fully master.

That really depends on the language and their background.

Going from C to C++ and you can be pretty functional pretty quickly, and comfortable in a year. Your big hurdle then is whatever specific libraries you're using.

Smaller languages like Lua can be fully adapted to in about 2 months or less.

I mean, yeah, picking someone with 10 years of Python experience and nothing else, then expecting them to jump right into a massive C++ codebase won't go well. But someone with 5 years of Ruby experience and a side project in Python will probably do pretty well if they're dropped into a Python-oriented job.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#285

Post by paxys »

Axien wrote: post #264

Every time I hear of developer shortages the next sentence involves increasing the H-1B visa pool. I’m now in upper management. I’m told I can hire as many Indian developers as I want (based in India) but must limit my US development team. Why? Cost of course. There is no real shortage, just an attempt to clamp down on real wages.

I'm also in the same position as a manager, but to me it makes perfect sense. Roughly speaking a staff+ engineer in India will be $60-100K/yr total comp including benefits (and I'm talking IIT talent, way above market wages) with skills equivalent to or better than one in the Bay Area at $500K+. Our best development right now happens out of our India office.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#286

Post by MattGaiser »

KhoomeiK wrote: post #225

I honestly don't think pay is an issue in tech, but most of the others the author brings up are valid points. The crux of the issue in my opinion is the fact that NO ONE HIRES JUNIOR DEVELOPERS . Companies don't want to take on the burden of training junior devs and then complain when there aren't enough senior devs to go around. Obviously it makes sense from a business perspective, but taking a step back, training j…

Is there a book about transitioning from junior to senior? I'm at a company which has no more senior devs, so am looking at alternatives for my growth.

Obviously it is not a perfect substitute, but the senior is not likely to be replaced soon.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#287

Post by 0xB31B1B »

_delirium wrote: post #219
_2d30 wrote: post #14

I literally can’t relate to this on any level. I’m an HM at a company that pays on the order of a FANG and at best matches one of these credentialist barriers and yet we can’t come close to hiring targets on devs. I don’t get how people can see the plethora of individuals under 10yrs experience in SWE and other tech roles in SV/NYC/SEA with incomes of $250-600k/yr and think this happens without a “shortage” of talent…

> devs have a lot of bargaining power Employees don't seem to have enough bargaining power to meaningfully control working conditions, though. Maybe these are worth a ton of money to the company, or such desires are an outlier. But here is my experience: I'm a professor of computer science, and frequently get recruiters trying to get me to jump ship to industry. I'm open to it in principle. I'm reasonably happy in my…

The hiring managers don't have that power. Not sure if you have done an interview loop but I assume that as a tenure track/tenured professor you're going to be L6+ individual contributor in a research group. In that interview loop you're probably going to have a decent amount of face time with a director level or VP. IMO if you're actually interested in making the jump the right play is to get the job, and then negotiate the office with the director/vp that you'd be reporting to, they will 99% of the time not let office access be something that stops them from hiring a staff+ engineer. Feel free to ping me directly if you want to ask more questions.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#288

Post by missedthecue »

Axien wrote: post #264

Every time I hear of developer shortages the next sentence involves increasing the H-1B visa pool. I’m now in upper management. I’m told I can hire as many Indian developers as I want (based in India) but must limit my US development team. Why? Cost of course. There is no real shortage, just an attempt to clamp down on real wages.

I mean you cannot deny that there is zero merit to the rule. A good developer in Bangalore is $35k a year. A good developer in the US will set you back no less than $120k + 40% for all the benefits and payroll taxes and other associated employment costs.

If by "clamp down on wages" you mean control expenses in a general sense, i guess you're correct, but you sure are making it sound sinister.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#289

Post by anonymoushn »

missedthecue wrote: post #270
bradlys wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of living is also wildly different since 2010 though too.

Widly? I don't think there's ever been a decade of lower inflation. It's certainly not 4x as expensive as then

looks like the cost of housing in Palo Alto has more than doubled: https://julianalee.com/palo-alto/palo-alto-statistics.htm

Edit: This is to say, the cost of housing has grown faster than the compensation available to new grads.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#290

Post by JAlexoid »

moneywoes wrote: post #230
opportune wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring at these companies is very different from the bad examples described here, except for the indexing on degrees (if you don't have extensive experience you're not getting hired without a degree). They don't test trivia and don't typically look for "X years experience with Y framework". I remember seeing that in lots of smaller, lower paying companies' job postings on websites like Indeed but I've never seen that…

Any suggestions for getting a recruiter to message you?

Have a good and relevant linkedin profile.

Post on Hired.

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