Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree • Hacker News Board

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#281

Post by vetinari » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #189

mhh__ wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to the constant annoyances with windows, and similarly things I don't like in Mac?

As opposed to basic things (like display drivers, hibernation, bluetooth, fingerprint scanners, etc.) working fine on both. Every OS will add annoyances and bugs on top. But it's on Linux where people usually have to fight/configure/trial-and-error to get basic things working more often than Windows and macOS. And this is not some Linux hater notion. It has been complained about by people like ESR, Linus, and Miguel…

> As opposed to basic things (like display drivers, hibernation, bluetooth, fingerprint scanners, etc.) working fine on both.

I have a nice list of issues that contradicts that statement. For example, M1 macs like to kernel panic for some reason.

> But it's on Linux where people usually have to fight/configure/trial-and-error to get basic things working more often than Windows and macOS.

Depends what you are trying to achieve. If you were trying to hackintosh some random ASUS+AMD laptop, your experience would not be nice either. Similarly, when you are trying to use random crap (that's technical term) where nobody ever did any integration with Linux, the experience will be bad (that someone doing the integration is going to be you). If you use either supported machine model (where the machine vendor did all the work), or machine that's very near to reference designs (where the chip vendors did the work), you experience will be much better.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#282

Post by e12e » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

redm wrote: post #211

After reading articles last year on Linus insinuating it would be "unlikely" that Linux would appear on the M1 [1] [2], I drank the cool-aid and took that at face value. I guess I should have known better, just like nature, open source "finds a way". [1] https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=196533&curpost... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25216680 etc..

Well, recall what he said about Linux.. :)

> Hello everybody out there using minix –

> I’m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won’t be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. (.. .)

> Linus

> PS. Yes – it’s free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs. It is NOT portable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that’s all I have :-(.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#283

Post by vetinari » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

edent wrote: post #97

hashhar wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on - Bluetooth headsets are unusable with the mic on due to HFP being the only bluetooth profile most Linux distros support.

Nope. I run Pop OS and I get A2DP on all my Bluetooth headsets. I'm running a cheapish Clevo laptop.

A2DP doesn't work simultaneously with HFP (i.e. "with the (bluetooth) mic on"). That's not Linux limitation, that's Bluetooth limitation and other OSes - Android, MacOS, iOS, Windows - behave exactly the same.

One solution is getting a wired mic.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#284

Post by vetinari » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

square_usual wrote: post #147

starkruzr wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to think of one and literally can't. everything works these days. even Bluetooth audio isn't a problem anymore.

Try sharing only a single display of your multi monitor setup on X11. Try sharing a screen at all on Wayland ;) E: Realised "sharing" would be ambiguous - I mean screen sharing on video calls, etc.

Sharing single displays or specific windows on Wayland is easy - Chrome and Firefox, or app like OBS can do it; if your conference app cannot do it, ask the vendor why.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#285

Post by exciteabletom » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

salamandersauce wrote: post #207

rkangel wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think we're getting there. Wayland is a much saner, more consistent experience than X11 ever was. I use Fedora and with Gnome and Mutter you get a solid experience. Not everyone likes Gnome but I find it to be generally pretty good and productive to work in. There are some gaps in Wayland - screen sharing being the obvious one. But these gaps are in the process of being closed (pipewire being part of the pic…

Nvidia really needs to get on Wayland already. I tried a few months ago to run KDE on Wayland+Nvidia it was literally unusable. I could not put a panel down without bugs. I'm running mixed DPI with the Nvidia driver and it's just easiest to make seperate X screens despite all the downsides that brings :/. I'm going to be sad that a lot of little WMs are probably never going to make the jump. I'm not sure Wayland is e…

nVidia works fine on Wayland on Gnome because Gnome implemented nVidia's EGLstreams as well as GBM

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#286

Post by chociej » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

apatheticonion wrote: post #39

I say this as a long-time PC user; MacBook laptop hardware is unrivaled in the PC space (trackpad, screen and keyboard - not pure price/performance). Having any distro running Gnome 40 with full gesture support would be seriously compelling for daily driving.

It's really a shame. I'm in the same boat as you. I'd buy their machines instantly if I knew I could install my distro of choice. Last I read, Windows-via-Bootcamp was basically dead, and despite the efforts of e.g. the t2linux.org folks, it seems it's quite difficult to get Linux up and running 100%.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#287

Post by macintux » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

hyperpl wrote: post #239

apatheticonion wrote: post #39

I say this as a long-time PC user; MacBook laptop hardware is unrivaled in the PC space (trackpad, screen and keyboard - not pure price/performance). Having any distro running Gnome 40 with full gesture support would be seriously compelling for daily driving.

I would say the thinkpad keyboards are far superior to the Mac keyboards. Also the nub is much more usable to those that prefer it over the touchpad.

> Also the nub is much more usable to those that prefer it over the touchpad.

Usable as a pointer, maybe, but the trackpad has about 12 other features. Gestures, tap to click, have made the trackpad indispensable to me.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#288

Post by vetinari » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

midrus wrote: post #119

strange_things wrote: post #20

This is very anecdotal but every single laptop I have bought in the last 10 years (4) worked perfectly out-of-the box with either Linux Mint or Ubuntu (which are the same on the inside). I only vaguely remember once I had to change some conf file for my trackpad to work after a dist update but that was it. Not sure why everyone in this thread is so hesitant about Linux on a laptop? It literally just works (tm) for me…

Not my experience at all. Thinkpads are the one with the best support, but there are always problems with high DPI screens, plugging external monitors, suspending some times works some times doesn't, battery drains really quick, the trackpad just barely works (gestures, hardly work). I feel the only people that say Linux works great on a laptop is because A) it manages to boot it and 2) Never used a MacBook Pro or si…

> 2) Never used a MacBook Pro or similar so they don't know what something working well means.

On the contrary; if you use all three systems, you realize, that all of them have quirks. You just got used to them, so you don't get disturbed to them, but the quirks of the system you don't use regularly will get noticed quickly.

For example, only with the above-mentioned MacBook Pro I experienced a situation, where I'm connected to the wifi, unless suddenly I'am not, all network packets go to null and to get connected again, I have to reboot the machine. Or the machine randomly not waking up from sleep, when connected to TB dock. Or - new on M1 - machine kernel panicking, the menu bar getting non-responsive or not recognizing ethernet adapter in the TB dock at all.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#289

Post by chociej » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

For the many of you mentioning poor Linux support on the T2 macbooks, check out t2linux.org. They're doing good work but I'm sure could use some help.

I too would love an MBP than could run Linux well.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#290

Post by rz2k » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

redm wrote: post #211

After reading articles last year on Linus insinuating it would be "unlikely" that Linux would appear on the M1 [1] [2], I drank the cool-aid and took that at face value. I guess I should have known better, just like nature, open source "finds a way". [1] https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=196533&curpost... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25216680 etc..

There was a time when saying you didn't know how to do x on Linux forums got insults and RTFM replies, but saying that Linux was an incapable of doing x got helpful instructions given in exquisite detail.

It did sound a bit like a taunt to enlist the community in figuring it out.