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34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

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Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#281

Post by marvin »

k__ wrote: post #106

I left in 2013. Because of offices, but later I figured that working 8h and starting before 12 wasn't in my interest either. Now, that I work as a freelancer for 7 years, I don't think I can go back anymore. Employment feels like serfdom to me.

I wonder how this will pan out for me. I'm increasingly thinking that just being employed is what's wrong for me. There's definitely something wrong, and it's not that I'm employed in the wrong place. It wouldn't get better just by switching jobs. Interesting to hear that some have had the same experience.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#282

Post by dzhiurgis »

tezzer wrote: post #160
politician wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do your colleagues feel the same way? Would you inflict office work on them if they don't?

Several do, the few times I've gone into the office and done a little problem solving with the folks who were there, we accomplished like a week of work in an hour. There's something about putting heads together that's hard to replace. Some of our folks have always been ~90% remote and that's fine, but I think they're missing out on one of the joys of engineering.

IMO companies should pay less people like you as your preferences incur more costs. Alternatively you could hire a co-working hub if you prefer that, but such costs shouldn't be passed onto people who ARE able to control their emotions and work/life balance.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#283

Post by dzhiurgis »

Teknoman117 wrote: post #205
tezzer wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I want to pay for a bigger house; I already pay to be close to work. I've never had more than a 15 minute commute, and that has occasionally been an expensive policy! I don't like co-opting my living space for work. It clutters things physically and mentally.

I'm in the same boat, and I pay a bit extra to live walking distance from my office. I detest working from home full time. It used to be a clear mental distinction between "this is my safe space where I don't worry about work" and "this is where I'm putting all of this time slice into work". I've done little personal development and I'm stressed all of the time because I don't feel comfortable at home anymore. I'm gl…

So then you'd be fine to pay a bit extra for a co-working hub.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#284

Post by dzhiurgis »

benbristow wrote: post #26
Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

> it feels rude to just ring someone

It feels that way because it is. Demanding synchronous response even if you're a boss is despicable. Glad I don't have to work with you.

Sure there are exceptions when you've got important deadlines or fires to put out, but distractions are never welcome. Sure in office it was acceptable to have 5x less productivity, but you get to coach people which felt nice internally.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#285

Post by dzhiurgis »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #207
g051051 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your need for an instant answer often derails my work flow. This! The office paradigm values everyone else's time over my time. It paints interruption as a virtue. My last employer (before COVID) cancelled all WFH with the statement "We all know a 15 minute face-to-face conversation is better than a 3 day email chain". What about the other 99% of my time? Any time saved by that 15 minutes interaction is dwarfed by…

I haven't see anyone mention, not only are you disrupting the person you have turned around to ask a question but likely 3-4 people in the immediate vicinity. Depending on your office layout and the loudness of your conversation maybe even more.

Now everyone wears $500 helicopter noise cancelling headphones and you have wait it out till they are done.

I've got so used to them to get me to my zone I still use at home...

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#286

Post by decafninja »

duckfang wrote: post #256
imiric wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you, I think it's a mistake to reject all social aspects of working. It doesn't have to be about making friends, and certain type of work definitely benefits from direct social contact. Even with programming being mostly a solitary activity, discussing a piece of code, brainstorming design, pair programming, etc., are all much easier and interactive in person. The online tooling is just not there y…

Then I didn't quite get my point across. I'm not at all saying "Be antisocial at work". That just makes for a shitty time for everyone. What I was trying to get to was "dont use work as a way to make friends as well", since many of those relationships are predicated upon working said job. It's all too easy to lose a job and be simultaneously be isolated by having all your 'friend network' in a group that no longer ta…

Totally agree with this. It's great if friendships naturally develop at work, but you shouldn't rely on something like that to happen or expect it to happen. That's just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I've worked for four companies in my career. I'm still great friends with my coworkers from my first company.

I don't talk to anyone from my second and third companies at all - not because I don't like them, but because we just never built rapport or "jived" with each other beyond work. Our relationships amounts to at best, liking each others' posts on social networking and saying happy birthdays.

I'm still good friends with some people I worked at in my current company that have since left.

Then again, I'm fairly introverted. YMMV if you are highly extroverted. I know some people that can quickly become best friends with a room full of strangers.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#287

Post by dzhiurgis »

mulmen wrote: post #247
citizenkeen wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone says "Hey, you got a minute?" and you can't handle that five second interruption and you aren't comfortable saying "How about in half an hour?", that speaks more to you than others.

There's no such thing as a five second interruption. Once my concentration has been broken that is a ~15 minute process to get back into a flow state. This is human psychology. There's nothing wrong with me being distracted by distractions. Asking "hey you got a minute?" is a waste of everyone's time because either the answer is "yes" and you could have asked your question already or the answer is "no" and you just d…

How about disabling notifications when you are in flow and checking messages after you done. Effectively same as putting on headphones when in office.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#288

Post by dzhiurgis »

benbristow wrote: post #105
ghaff wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pretty much never call anyone out of the blue. I'd almost certainly message them and ask them if we can have a quick call.

I still feel sending a message for 'if we can have a quick call' is still similar to being out the blue. I feel like I'm putting pressure on someone at this time. Maybe it's just me/my personality.

At this point I'd say disable notifications and check messages every 45 minutes once you're out of flow.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#289

Post by mulmen »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #287
mulmen wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as a five second interruption. Once my concentration has been broken that is a ~15 minute process to get back into a flow state. This is human psychology. There's nothing wrong with me being distracted by distractions. Asking "hey you got a minute?" is a waste of everyone's time because either the answer is "yes" and you could have asked your question already or the answer is "no" and you just d…

How about disabling notifications when you are in flow and checking messages after you done. Effectively same as putting on headphones when in office.

I do disable notifications when I am in flow. That's why I prefer working from home. I have control over that.

In the office respect for the headphone signal is not universal. Also, sometimes I don't want to wear headphones just to signal I am in flow. Nor do I want to have to use them drown out all the other distractions. People are still walking around and doing things, all are potential distractions.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#290

Post by k__ »

marvin wrote: post #281
k__ wrote: post #106

I left in 2013. Because of offices, but later I figured that working 8h and starting before 12 wasn't in my interest either. Now, that I work as a freelancer for 7 years, I don't think I can go back anymore. Employment feels like serfdom to me.

I wonder how this will pan out for me. I'm increasingly thinking that just being employed is what's wrong for me. There's definitely something wrong, and it's not that I'm employed in the wrong place. It wouldn't get better just by switching jobs. Interesting to hear that some have had the same experience.

Yes.

It didn't feel like "employment isn't for me" at first. I never wanted to be self-employed. But in the end employment turned out to be too much.

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