Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#281

Post by gfxgirl » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:39 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #224

Cd00d wrote: post #151

I'm a little shocked by this. I thought the big tech companies and Google specifically were leading the charge in "we will allow significant WFH forever going forward", but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention. Personally, I'm at a small data company, and we're opening a new office for people where WFH is a burden (NYC apartments and all), but is so far voluntary. In fact, I think there are only seats for less than…

For Google, this doesn't surprise me at all. A big part of how they get people to work more is to keep them on campus as long as possible, and on-site incentives like meals, laundry, massage, etc. all serve that goal. The fact that Google's offices are often referred to as "campuses" rather than "offices" drives that point home as well.

Do you have any links to data that people at Google work more? That's certainly not my experience or understanding

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#282

Post by caskstrength » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:40 AM UTC

gfxgirl wrote: post #269

blub wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most people home office makes sense for practical reasons - long commute, spending more time with the family, living in a nicer / cheaper location but having a well paying job. On the other hand, extreme introverts that don't tolerate working in an office are a tiny minority and should dictate the working conditions even less than the extroverts. Personally I tend toward introvert (it's not black and white) and h…

I agree it's true for "some" people. Not for "most" "spending time with family" - no, I'm single and alone and so are most of my co-workers "living in a nicer / cheaper location" - no, my office is nicer than my home and same for most of my co-workers. Your situation and needs are different than mine apparently.

>"spending time with family" - no, I'm single and alone and so are most of my co-workers

>"living in a nicer / cheaper location" - no, my office is nicer than my home and same for most of my co-workers.

Nickname checks out.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#283

Post by brnt » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:40 AM UTC

hyko wrote: post #140

When will introverts realise that their working conditions are being dictated to them by extroverts? The pandemic-driven remote working is hell for some people, and unfortunately they call the shots. I don’t mind coming into your office now and again (there’s a special dimension to IRL connections), but the reason I don’t want to work there full time is that it’s crap for knowledge work. I outspend you by 10x per hea…

I had hoped Covid would normalize at least partial WFH. I'm somewhere in the middle on this scale, but the reason to WFH is that it gives me some flexibility around chores and appointments outside of work, and saves me a commute. I hope we'll get to keep that freedom at least. 2/3 days at the office and 2/3 days at home would be great for me.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#284

Post by supergirl » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:41 AM UTC

turing_complete wrote: post #184

person_of_color wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today is a big disaster for those who foresaw changes in the workplace. Now we have only tier 2 companies (Dropbox/Spotify) who have gone full remote.

Microsoft has told staff that they will have the option of working from home permanently with manager approval. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54482245

"with manager approval" is just a decoy. won't work out. if your whole team is in the office it's much harder for you to be remote. it must be set as company policy otherwise just a handful will do it and likely suffer for it as their teams won't take all the measures to make it work well and they'll be at a promotion disadvantage compared to people that get face time.

and "with manager approval" remote isn't really new. there were already people working remotely before the pandemic.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#285

Post by krageon » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:41 AM UTC

izacus wrote: post #179

tudorconstantin wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally not an introvert: I love being around nice people, I love playing table tennis and having lunch with my colleagues. But wasting 1h-2h daily on commuting to/from work is in absolutely no way worthy of this. It's our duty as human beings to resist going back to the office as much as possible. To gain back some of the life we otherwise would spend on commute. Work is for work, not for socializing, or having…

> It's our duty as human beings to resist going back to the office as much as possible. Please don't talk for all of us. If you're miserable in the office that's fine, but it's noones duty to support your preferences. This is why we have this amazing free market - everyone can work at a company that respects their preferences.

> amazing free market

> everyone can

No. Most people don't have good options. It's a little ironic to say the OP needs more empathy and then go on to make an argument that's almost breathtakingly disconnected from reality.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#286

Post by krageon » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:42 AM UTC

anoncake wrote: post #245

alexgmcm wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have social contact outside of work though. WFH gives people back time to explore hobbies, join clubs, meet people etc. The social contact you have at work often feels forced and artificial - you can choose your friends, your colleagues not so much.

For many people, that doesn't work for whatever reasons. Which is why we have a loneliness problem. WFH may be good for introverts with good social skills. It's awful for shy extraverts (which is a less-than-ideal combination to begin with).

> for whatever reasons

If you can't speak to people unless they're forced to, that doesn't mean that you need to make it so that everyone else is forced to because otherwise you're uncomfortable.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#287

Post by 01100011 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:43 AM UTC

If climate change is real, then commuting is going to die sooner or later.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#288

Post by austinjp » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:48 AM UTC

wg0 wrote: post #262

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #199

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

Absolutely - in knowledge economy, insisting on physical presence is darn damn stupid. And I don't want to hang "with friends at work" I go to "work" that has to be specified clearly and that I expect to deliver with purely professional merit driven collaboration and not friendships and gangs. I have friends or would love to have friends out of the place where I work. I want strict compartmentalisation between work a…

What about those who _do_ want a friendly workplace with some element of social interaction?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#289

Post by qbasic_forever » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:48 AM UTC

wu_187 wrote: post #197

skocznymroczny wrote: post #186

I enjoy working from home. If reopening offices means going back to the office and having to sit in a mask for eight hours a day, no thank you.

This is why we need unions. Do employees get to sue Alphabet if they get covid from the office?

They would have to prove negligence of some sort, and I guarantee Google has enough lawyers on payroll to make that absolutely impossible without the most egregious evidence (like multiple videos of your manager walking up to you and saying "look at this nice bottle of pure COVID-19... be a real shame if I drop... OOPS I SPILLED IT ON YOU! ahhhh!!").

Remember, this is a company that has had senior executives have extremely real and credible sexual misconduct allegations made against them only to see them sent off with million dollar golden parachutes: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-...

You will not win a legal battle against Google, period.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#290

Post by whobar » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 8:49 AM UTC

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #199

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

Ever thought that these executives are not as dumb as you think they are, and maybe that they are aware that individual developer productivity may drop, but there are broader benefits to having everyone on site.