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The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

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Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#281

My teenage son asked me the other day what "grunge" and "goth" were. I was then trying to explain "subculture" and "counterculture", and it was surprisingly difficult to explain.. or convey, especially in the context of what he's seen so far in his life. I tried using examples of my own youthful adventures and communities -- still not easy.

I've heard it claimed that hardcore punk was the last American youth subculture, I think street skating qualified too. Those were pretty much the end of it though. You can't have a youth subculture that your parents drive you to in the car.

Some of those hardcore punks were driven around to the sound of Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Lennon’s “Imagine”... Elvis was utterly scandalous in his time (“those hips, what filth!”), and I bet he was on a lot of radios when Malcolm McLaren and his protégés were growing up.

Any successful culture, be it sub- or counter-, will eventually be swallowed by the mainstream. That’s because a culture is such only if it gets transmitted from person to person. Denying transmission is not counter-cultural, it is anti-cultural: it denies its own validity. Which is why I laugh at the elitism and pretentiousness of articles like these, who want to be purer than pure then take their clues from the likes of MTV Unplugged. The search for purity in culture is a fool’s errand, one might as well burn every page one writes. In reality, culture has to be transmitted, and the purists are just another bunch of competitors desperately trying to elbow everybody else with what little leverage they have.

The modern lack of visible “alternative” cultures is simply due to the fragmentation and recombination that new media have allowed. Guthenberg has invented his press a few years ago, Luther just started writing his thesis, and we are all here wondering why amanuensis culture is not as vibrant as it was.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find plenty of these types of communities through Discord, and I think that is part of the equation that's left out here. I don't really like discord much, but the reason I get when I do is to go check in on those friends. Usually these communities are just people that I've met playing games. I don't know that these would qualify as counter-culture or subculture, but they are free of marketing and advertising, and…

Old farts still had irl friends. The amount of teens who have no tangible friendships outside of Discord is sobering.

My son has a group of friends at the Uni, some of them in his same school, some of them in nearby schools, some of them are in the neighbourhood... half of them are from high school, the other half are from Minecraft discord groups.

They have a weekly meeting in a Uni cafeteria and use indistinctly Discord or Instagram as chat. Instagram has replaced WhatsApp as the regular phone chat.

All of them have wider net-only groups of acquitances.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some hard to understand opinions on the web over the years, but church as counterculture really takes the cake.

Churches (specifically Christian churches) can be dead center in the culture. Or they can be solidly Christian, and still be countercultural. They might say things like: You're looking for social unity? Politics isn't going to create that, no matter which side wins. We can show you a real social unity. You're looking for security? The government's Covid response isn't going to give you that, even if they do it perfec…

Some things that count as churches may have sprung up to make such offers, but I am assuming most churches have been standing since before Covid, before Facebook, before Trump and Obama and Bush.

If say 40% of people are attending these gatherings, it's a tough sell that they are so far from mainstream as to be countercultural.

People have been visiting churches in search of unity, security, and joy for thousands of years.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#284

Charles Taylor, the philosopher, covered much of this about twenty years ago with far less snark and buzzwords. I strongly recommend reading The Ethics of Authenticity. It’s all about the trend of individualism and how it precedes social media by...centuries. https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674987692 Social media is no longer authentic so you’re seeing a slowly growing backlash against it. https://se…

"Antisocial media" would a truthful title. I don't even like texting. Email is a letter replacement. Call me and pickup when I call, or GTFO. Faceblock, Twatter, Instaglam, Discard, Snapper, TikTak, LinkedOut can all listen to the flushing sound of me deleting their advertising monetization. "Buh buh all of your Ivy and Pac12 associations that made you look important on a résumé." Too bad, I haven't talked to most of…

That's weird. I mean, you do you, but if this is a popular opinion, I had no idea. On the contrary, I'm mildly annoyed when someone calls me to say something that could've said over the text.

And I don't think of it as a personal preference: async information exchange is objectively less intrusive, which is why it should be preferred when possible (which isn't always the case, because it's also objectively less fluent). Unless you are some girl I'm mindlessly infatuated with, I'm probably not waiting for you call all day long, so when you are forcing me to interrupt whatever I was doing, because you are calling to say something as simple as "so, you asked me about X the other day, the answer is yes" or to ask a simple question without any follow up (or, my favourite: a courtesy call with no actual information exchange): I'll be polite, of course, but I'll hate you.

If you want to ask or tell me something short: send me a text, I'll read and respond in 5 minutes, so that I don't have to interrupt what I'm doing right now. If it isn't short and you are too lazy to type: no problem, send me a voice-message. If you just want some chit-chat: ask me to go grab a beer (via text). If it's complicated and we'll need some back-and-forth, we should call each other, but I'll appreciate if you'll send a text/voice first, asking me to talk over the phone about X. And only if it's URGENT you call me right away. And because it's just sensible thing to do, when you are suddenly calling me, I'm already assuming it's URGENT: in fact, that's the only reason to answer you when you are calling, and not to call back when I'm in the mood. So when it turns out that it really wasn't, you are already an asshole, even if I don't show it.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DOOM Now we’re talking. Doom was a massive deal because of the violence (as you mentioned), but also because it moved entertainment revenue away from MSM and onto PC’s and the internet.

It didn't though. By the time of Doom's release video games (console and PC) were a multi-billion dollar industry. Only a quarter of households had PCs and none had Internet access. Even by 2000 only half of all households had a computer and only about 40% had Internet access. Doom was not some watershed moment in entertainment. It was a trend setter, or at least a meme, in the industry but it didn't somehow change t…

Shareware and distribution of the game through the internet was a watershed moment that helped sell a lot of Wolfenstein and doom in 1992 and 1993. It is doubtful that a company like Nintendo would distribute a game like doom. PS was a few years after that. Are these statements correct, or hyperbole?

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#286

Charles Taylor, the philosopher, covered much of this about twenty years ago with far less snark and buzzwords. I strongly recommend reading The Ethics of Authenticity. It’s all about the trend of individualism and how it precedes social media by...centuries. https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674987692 Social media is no longer authentic so you’re seeing a slowly growing backlash against it. https://se…

"Antisocial media" would a truthful title. I don't even like texting. Email is a letter replacement. Call me and pickup when I call, or GTFO. Faceblock, Twatter, Instaglam, Discard, Snapper, TikTak, LinkedOut can all listen to the flushing sound of me deleting their advertising monetization. "Buh buh all of your Ivy and Pac12 associations that made you look important on a résumé." Too bad, I haven't talked to most of…

I'm along this spectrum, but not nearly so far away.

I like chat programs used as email - that is, non-real-time. I have lowered my anxiety a lot by realizing that texts are not realtime in my life 98% of the time, and to treat them accordingly: Checked on upon occasion. Don't stress about whether the person on the other end will be upset if you don't get back right away.

Planning something? Need someone right away? Set the expectation of response beforehand or just call them.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because WSB uses another language that many do not know, or care to know.

I’m really not sure “diamond hands” and “retard” count so much as another language. I think the big gap between there and other places on the same subject is on “gambling logic”, not right or wrong, I’ve seen more people there admit that than “Wallstreet Types” who would be trillionaires if they actually knew how to win.

Fair. But there is also some assumed knowledge of what futures and puts are, no?

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#288
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Antisocial media" would a truthful title. I don't even like texting. Email is a letter replacement. Call me and pickup when I call, or GTFO. Faceblock, Twatter, Instaglam, Discard, Snapper, TikTak, LinkedOut can all listen to the flushing sound of me deleting their advertising monetization. "Buh buh all of your Ivy and Pac12 associations that made you look important on a résumé." Too bad, I haven't talked to most of…

That's weird. I mean, you do you, but if this is a popular opinion, I had no idea. On the contrary, I'm mildly annoyed when someone calls me to say something that could've said over the text. And I don't think of it as a personal preference: async information exchange is objectively less intrusive, which is why it should be preferred when possible (which isn't always the case, because it's also objectively less fluen…

Would you be content with chatbots, a sex doll, and living in an undersea bubble? If so (I doubt it), great, go for it.

If not: don't answer, silent mode, or power off, or appreciate human contact when you do. If people are "calling too much," it's because you failed to train them how to interact with you. And, now you're resenting their assuming it was okay because you were too "nice" to be honest. Instead of mind-reading, communicate (edit: communicate your preferences of communication) perhaps. It's probably you, not them. Sorry, bud.

Edit: Let's inquire curiously rather than name-call or get snarky, because that degrades the site and discourages understanding.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#289

Charles Taylor, the philosopher, covered much of this about twenty years ago with far less snark and buzzwords. I strongly recommend reading The Ethics of Authenticity. It’s all about the trend of individualism and how it precedes social media by...centuries. https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674987692 Social media is no longer authentic so you’re seeing a slowly growing backlash against it. https://se…

I think the whole thing is bogus from the start, the 'social media' idea I mean. These are companies.. they're not here to make culture or societies.. they're parasite leeching on your human needs.

When a new trends starts organically, it's all impulsive and genuine, then people start to profit on it and the game is over.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#290
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's weird. I mean, you do you, but if this is a popular opinion, I had no idea. On the contrary, I'm mildly annoyed when someone calls me to say something that could've said over the text. And I don't think of it as a personal preference: async information exchange is objectively less intrusive, which is why it should be preferred when possible (which isn't always the case, because it's also objectively less fluen…

Would you be content with chatbots, a sex doll, and living in an undersea bubble? If so (I doubt it), great, go for it. If not: don't answer, silent mode, or power off, or appreciate human contact when you do. If people are "calling too much," it's because you failed to train them how to interact with you. And, now you're resenting their assuming it was okay because you were too "nice" to be honest. Instead of mind-r…

Not OP, but of course not. But the text message with that other person is not the end of the interaction. It is a coordination effort. "What time are you going to be here for dinner." "6:30." Then the actual human interaction in person happens.

> Sorry, bud.

This makes you sound like a jerk.

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