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Always Bet on Text (2014)

graydon2.dreamwidth.org

281–290 of 349 posts

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah come on, this is not accurate at all. We have tons of tech now: audio, video, charting, etc. Circles are pretty easy in powerpoint or any such software. The tech is obviously here already. But still, why do people prefer sending chat texts instead of calling or video calling? Surely not because of tech.

No, GP is right, for a simple reason: look at your input devices. A keyboard and mouse/touchpad combo is most effective at interacting with text. The story would be entirely different if the main interface was e.g. a stylus. A instant messaging service that sends hand written scribbles instead of text follows much more naturally from that.

This is why fax machines persist in Japan.

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#282
post #251

> assuming we treat speech/signing as natural phenomenon -- there are no human societies without it -- whereas textual capability has to be transmitted, taught, acquired I’ve been watching videos of pets (dogs, cats) being “button trained”—being taught to use (primitive, non-syntactic) language by making associations between things/acts/emotional states and the pressing of one or another audio-playing buttons that ha…

>“spoken language” is actually not something inherent and instinctual to humans

I agree, as you say until you reach the point where newborns are already surrounded by it.

>It’s just a technology that’s rather simple to learn, if you have the right underlying hardware acceleration (e.g. a cerebral cortex)—and, crucially, a teacher.

No teacher needed whatsoever quite often, but maybe so usually, so I can not say crucial.

>And I hypothesize that that is what happened (pre)historically: at some point, there were several memetic “waves” spreading increasingly-technologically-advanced (e.g. syntactic, expressive) forms of language across human populations with brains already structurally amenable to them. Of course, each wave would only be a struggle to the generation that pioneered it; the next generation, being immersed in that new, more-complex language form from birth, would find it similarly intuitive.

The evolution of more expressive vocalizations might have been required along these lines for us to reach where we always thought modern man was to begin with.

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#283

There is a well known fact in the field of psychometrics: human general intelligence g can be modeled as two relatively independent sub-factors: verbal intelligence and spatial intelligence. Other sub-factors, if any, are way more speculative. As a human being, it is quite possible to have verbal intelligence higher than spatial intelligence, and indeed I know some people with verbal tilt and some other people with s…

> The best and brightest in this game of words become lawyers and career politicians, movers and shakers of our world; but are they truly our best, and do they truly imagine the referents of their symbols ? What would a high spacial intelligence, low verbal intelligence individual thrive as a President, CEO, or other type of leader? Those jobs revolve around effective communication, and I believe that will always fav…

At the very top, real leaders can sometimes do very well using a spokesperson instead of direct communication.

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#284
post #268

As usual, context matters. If you're trying to convey complex thoughts about abstract matters, then language is the way to do it. If you are trying to convey deep emotional states, then a photo or video is probably better. You cannot convert the 1st amendment into photos, and you cannot convert the Mona Lisa smile into words. Just try to use words to describe either of these photos and see how they fall short: https:…

Strong disagree on photos. I find photos to be an excellent way to convey emotions that didn't exist. Also very common to have multiple people conclude very different things from a photo. Very misleading.

I'll also add that well written prose has moved me (and many others) emotionally in more powerful ways than any photo ever has.

Your Great Depression era photo conveys emotions only because of the context around it - context I know primarily because of text. If I showed this photo to a relative of mine half way across the world, they would merely see an ordinary woman with two sleepy kids.

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#285
post #264

The first comment is interesting: "Send me a link to a news story that turns out to be a video, or an audio file, and I’ll close it unconsumed: I haven’t got that kind of time. Send me a transcript: I’ll finish reading in half the time it would take me to passively sit there while it played, and I’ll more clearly remember it." The author is ok with sitting and staring at the article because it's faster. What he misse…

The balanced information diet is interesting.

It's frustrating that although so much more content is publicly accessible for free today, I find on the whole that information density has decreased, probably due to advertising as monetization.

I prefer text because I can skim to the important parts and jump through links. Audio and Video need better methods for this.

If we could summarize information better, in text, audio, video, etc. I think the internet would be more useful and people would be able to communicate more effectively. We need publicly accessible channels of higher information density.

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#286
post #268

As usual, context matters. If you're trying to convey complex thoughts about abstract matters, then language is the way to do it. If you are trying to convey deep emotional states, then a photo or video is probably better. You cannot convert the 1st amendment into photos, and you cannot convert the Mona Lisa smile into words. Just try to use words to describe either of these photos and see how they fall short: https:…

Strong disagree on photos. I find photos to be an excellent way to convey emotions that didn't exist. Also very common to have multiple people conclude very different things from a photo. Very misleading. I'll also add that well written prose has moved me (and many others) emotionally in more powerful ways than any photo ever has. Your Great Depression era photo conveys emotions only because of the context around it…

>Also very common to have multiple people conclude very different things from a photo.

But that's true for text, too. The US just had a very major politicized event where two sides had two wildly different conclusions over what one man's words meant. And there's a grand legal tradition of taking one specific document and interpreting what its words mean and applying it to a plethora of situations. There's plenty of people that come to wildly different conclusions over what certain amendments do or do not mean.

Hell, look at literary analysis! You can give people a book like 1984, and some people will say in all confidence that it is explicitly anti-socialism, when the author said the literal opposite. And that's something with a supposedly clear ideological message, to say nothing of works with less concrete themes.

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not plausible that, but for the limitations of technology, you could substitute a picture for the argument presented in your post.

I don't disagree, I think some ideas are better expressed as text others by other forms of media. E.g., that's why we use graphs, diagrams, storyboards, flowcharts, etc... in addition to text to communicate. For the record, I came up with this thought, about computers and software being optimized for text, by realizing I learned the best by reading information presented as a combination of text and media (e.g., a tex…

I take your point, as I often sketch things myself to help me think, but only pencil-on-paper. I would guess there are tools for sketching with a stylus on a tablet, but I have never felt a pressing-enough need to push me into checking them out.

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#288
post #250

Apples and oranges. The post states that the used Twitter logo PNG is 4000 bytes, while it's only 723. Try to express that logo in text, English language and in all its details with 723 characters, so you are able to reproduce a pixel perfect representation. Not even possible with 4000 characters anyway. Don't bother. Text will be ambiguous, unless you describe every single detail. If the target is to communicate "Tw…

Compare a book (a few megs) with a picture of the same size. What do you think can communicate more info? Do you have a single counter-example?

There are single pictures you couldn't describe with terabytes of text(to a human, that is). Imagine for example trying to describe the milky way and northern lights. Yeah you could convey their looks in words but nobody is going to end up with the correct visual no matter how hard you try. Now add in other things, like emotion on people's faces. Some things just aren't possible to describe in full.

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#289
And somewhere in that discussion, I hear a faint echo of "org-mode" being whispered : ) Jokes aside, I often notice, how I am more productive, when relying on plain text, than relying on "enterprise" wiki systems, which make it impossible to export to any useful further processable format (looking at you, Confluence). One of my favorite features is, that it is easy to put text under version control, so that diffs have a recognizable meaning.

Re: Always Bet on Text (2014)

#290
The author seems to be arguing that "most general" = "best" - because text is the most general communication format, it's the best.

This argument is pretty trivially false.

By this logic, the best programming language is assembly, because it's the most general. Actually, writing opcodes directly might be more general, in case your assembler doesn't have translations for some undocumented opcodes. The best editor would be a hex editor. The best web browser would be netcat piped into a hex editor, as well. The best OS would be no OS at all (because OSes impose restrictions in order to make programming easier and safer). The best application, for any kind of application, would be an interpreter that would allow you to create your own, however you wanted.

Engineering is necessarily a tradeoff between generality and efficiency. Technology is largely used to make things more efficient, and so our tools always impose some constraints on the problem/solution space in order to be more efficient than not using that tool.

A common design pattern is a specialized fast-path and slower (but more general) fallback.

In addition, as many others have stated here: "the right tool for the right job". Videos, audio, pictures, and interactive tools will always be more efficient for certain problems. If your sole concern is generality, then yes, by all means, use text. However, this will almost never happen; your design space will almost always necessitate a tradeoff of generality with efficiency - in which case, pure plain text is rarely the solution.

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