Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#281

Post by valuearb » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 8:28 PM UTC

latexr wrote: post #266

valuearb wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the reviewers job to decide if you created a “good” keyboard, just that your app generally does what it says it does. Doing specific feature testing would not be trivial. Your description may say you have the worlds only AI keyboard driven by machine learning. No way the reviewers will be able to test that, so they will accept it at face value. A few years ago Apple substantially decreased the App Review tim…

> It’s not the reviewers job to decide if you created a “good” keyboard, just that your app generally does what it says it does. From KeyboardCleanTool’s webpage[1]: > In 2011 Apple rejected the app for the Mac App Store because apparently it's "not useful", however I often use it to clean my Macbook Keyboard without producing annoying input. App review does make judgements on the usefulness of apps (and in this case…

So ten years ago they showed why it’s a bad idea?

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#282

Post by zepto » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 8:28 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #268

zepto wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most markets compete on price, not quality. You’ll see most people flock to where they can get stuff for free or very little, exactly as it is on the web . We already see a race to the bottom and massive duplication of apps. It will only get worse if there are more stores, and then nobody will be in a position to fix it. Apple should be being pressured to do something about this, but forcing the store open will have…

> Most markets compete on price, not quality. But some won't. And if people get used to it, they will go elsewhere for a specific app and leave the scams behind. At which point Apple will have to do something or their marketplace will devolve into a cesspool and everybody will leave.

But some won't. And if people get used to it, they will go elsewhere for a specific app and leave the scams behind.

People be forced will go to really shitty stores that are way worse than Apple’s one for specific apps, and the overall app market will become much less safe.

Why? Because people establishing new stores will just pay for exclusives.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#283

Post by valuearb » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

sireat wrote: post #271

valuearb wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the reviewers never see the scam screens. Once approved the scammers change a setting in the cloud and the app starts opening in scam mode.

If the app is working properly during review, why change it to nonworking later on? It is like that Key and Peele skit about robbing a bank by working there. If you can create a working app why not leave it as is ?

It was likely a very poor keyboard. Just operating well enough to pass review. Once a user saw it, no one is buying.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#284

Post by admax88q » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

Oh so i cant actually trust the walles garden apple has curated. Everyone told me that locking my device to the curated app store is for my own safety. Let Apple select the software you can run so that youre safe from scams.

Good to know thats not true. I still have to be vigilant _and_ accept heavy restrictions.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#285

Post by WesolyKubeczek » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #279

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuses, excuses. Apple advertises the benefit of its App Store that thanks to the diligent manual review, such fraud simply has no place there. They also maintain that the fees are high because the review process is top notch and thus expensive. Now they have to admit that either the walls in their garden are worse than Swiss cheese by letting bad actors in, or that they are complicit in that fraud, because someone…

“Excuses, excuses.“ This is legal liability. That matters. > Now if I’m just as likely to be screwed over by an Apple-approved app from their walled garden as I am by sideloading random crap, what’s the point in it for me, as a user? If I have to exercise just as much caution, I can just as well sideload what I want. If this were true, then sure. But it obviously isn’t. Even the Google Play store is way worse in term…

Which is actually better, because I and an average Joe D. User at least _expect_ shady apps to be abundant there, despite all Google's efforts to prove otherwise. We exercise care there because we know for a fact Google's approval system is half-automated and full of holes.

On the other hand, the rhetoric Apple's marketing employs all the time suggests the App Store is the Internet Safety Panacea, a risk-free Teletubbyland for everyone. Which is far worse because it entices you to assume it's totally safe and let your guard down.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#286

Post by 908B64B197 » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

staticman2 wrote: post #139

bluGill wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that price any copyright lawyer will be happy to deal with the paperwork. You were making 2000/month, so the infringement is taking money away. For a share of that it is easy to register the copyright and then send the proper letters. Probably this will settle out of court where apple pays your lawyer from fund the developer would have got and then removes the app. you get nothing directly from the lawyer except t…

If the infringing App is in a foreign country the scenario is much more complicated than you are suggesting.

Can't he get it out of the App Store in his jurisdiction (EU + US with reciprocal agreements).

I guess the Chinese copycat will still be sold in China and other non-compliant markets for IP law but that would ba a partial victory.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#287

Post by mtnGoat » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #161

mnd999 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they’re benefitting from the fraud with their 30% cut. So yeah.

Apple doesn’t benefit from scam apps, the 30% doesn’t remotely make up for the brand damage. And in this case it’s unlikely the scammers are making more than a few hundred a month.

they do in fact financially benefit from any scam transaction that is not reversed, at the rate of 30%.

a profit/benefit is exactly that, regardless of size. just because it's not a major line item does not give us excuse to ignore it.

brand damage, hard to prove. are any of these people leaving the walled garden entirely? if not, there was no damage to the brand and apple profited 30%.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#288

Post by ta1234567890 » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

yarcob wrote: post #5

Oh my god, they don't even bother implementing the app any more... It reminds me of my first App Store experience. I made an app that was somewhat successful (about 2000€ a month, enough to pay for a students living expenses). Within short time, a chinese speaking developer cloned it. They copied the icon (slighlty different color), they copied the UI, they even copied all the text in the dialog boxes. They released…

This is the case with pretty much every Marketplace out there. Same thing happens with Amazon and same thing happens with Airbnb as well.

What a Marketplace cares the most about is maximizing transactions. Hence, they care about having plenty of vendors and showing good reviews for those vendors so that people will buy. They really don’t want to police vendors too much because that means reducing offer and transactions.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#289

Post by zepto » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #285

zepto wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Excuses, excuses.“ This is legal liability. That matters. > Now if I’m just as likely to be screwed over by an Apple-approved app from their walled garden as I am by sideloading random crap, what’s the point in it for me, as a user? If I have to exercise just as much caution, I can just as well sideload what I want. If this were true, then sure. But it obviously isn’t. Even the Google Play store is way worse in term…

Which is actually better, because I and an average Joe D. User at least _expect_ shady apps to be abundant there, despite all Google's efforts to prove otherwise. We exercise care there because we know for a fact Google's approval system is half-automated and full of holes. On the other hand, the rhetoric Apple's marketing employs all the time suggests the App Store is the Internet Safety Panacea, a risk-free Teletub…

Clearly false based on the observed incidence of malware, botnets, and fraud on Android. People in fact are not able to avoid these things.

You are not comparable to “Joe D user” if you know how to protect yourself against these things. He does not.

It actually is safe for most people to let their guard down with Apple’s store. A few counter examples show that it’s a moving target to keep it safe, but nothing more.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#290

Post by chrischen » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

yarcob wrote: post #5

Oh my god, they don't even bother implementing the app any more... It reminds me of my first App Store experience. I made an app that was somewhat successful (about 2000€ a month, enough to pay for a students living expenses). Within short time, a chinese speaking developer cloned it. They copied the icon (slighlty different color), they copied the UI, they even copied all the text in the dialog boxes. They released…

Wow something similar happened to my business. A fly-by-night business launched under my trademark, bought Google search ads against my domain searches, copied verbatim content from my website including my terms of service which has my address and company name in it, and then also sent me a cease an desist on my own trademark to top it off. Despite such egregious infractions it's incredibly difficult to stop them because their costs for doing this is near nothing. Their risks for doing this are also near nothing (since there's not really any criminal liability). Unfortunately the US legal system doesn't really work that well for small players. If anything platforms are probably in a better position to enforce things better than the government, but they aren't really doing so. Amazon is also turning a blind eye to scams since at the end of the day all money still flows to them.