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Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

knightcolumbia.org

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Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#281
post #231
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will never be easy. People should understand that and take the hard part as a fun part or as a price to pay for their digital independence.

That's not true. There's no reason why hosting a server should be hard. This is a UX issue, and an eminently solvable one at that. Imagine a self-hosted, easy-to-install Heroku-style server platform with a public repository for application images. It's not hard because it needs to be hard; it's hard because no one has invested the time and money to make it easy.

It doesn't matter how much you invest in making it easier. It will never be as easy as doing nothing, which is what the competing alternative provides.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard people 'just ask questions' or 'make observations' or similar a million times before, and you most certainly have comments that fit the profile of what you've been arguing in favor of. It reads like a deflection, as a result. Moreover, this is kind of what I mean by comments that aren't falsifiable, that don't really add anything. You're not giving me anything to work with when you gesture vaguely to theor…

At the risk of flogging a dead horse, and in the interests of honesty, [1] is a comment that I thought was an example of one downvoted unfairly. It wasn't the first one I've seen downvoted where I thought "Why? It seems they just don't agree." And it probably won't be the last. But it is the first and only time where I've questioned the downvoting in a comment [2]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25737065 [2…

I appreciate you coming back to the thread to give an example. However, the comment appears to no longer be downvoted or flagged.

This illustrates a common misconception about HN's propensity to vote one way or another. Your reply came less than two hours later, whereas the voting isn't complete for a while longer and so the score still has plenty of time to change as the audience continues to process it. This phenomenon (and related handwringing about "is HN reddit now?") can be observed as far back as 2009, and likely even further[1].

You might notice that the comment you replied to (which I would argue is actually demonstrably factually wrong in a few ways, and yet) recovered from its time in the depths beyond. This is likely owing to the fact that it was at least tactfully written, so replies could be written without having to work around the expletive content of the original comment; yours did not, arguably because it was not.

Anyway, this all sort of sidesteps the fact that comment karma was never intended to represent the value of a post or how worthy it is for distribution. It's more like a temperature gauge allowing you to perceive honestly how your comment makes others feel. And disagreement is a feeling too. In the words of 'pg, downvotes have always been used for disagreement.[2]

My first reply to you originally earned one downvote. And I figured it would, from at least one person, but I said it anyway because I believed it should be said. And you have that same ability too. Don't let the numbers get to your head. Just try and have normal conversations with people and the points take care of themselves. (As an example of this, I broke even on my original reply after some time, and gained more in my second reply.) It's rare that people with the ability to read a room and at least attempt to be agreeable in some way end up censured.

Thanks for coming back to this thread! I feel like this became a little more substantive than it was when it began.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=721455

2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=392347

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of flogging a dead horse, and in the interests of honesty, [1] is a comment that I thought was an example of one downvoted unfairly. It wasn't the first one I've seen downvoted where I thought "Why? It seems they just don't agree." And it probably won't be the last. But it is the first and only time where I've questioned the downvoting in a comment [2]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25737065 [2…

I appreciate you coming back to the thread to give an example. However, the comment appears to no longer be downvoted or flagged. This illustrates a common misconception about HN's propensity to vote one way or another. Your reply came less than two hours later, whereas the voting isn't complete for a while longer and so the score still has plenty of time to change as the audience continues to process it. This phenom…

"You might notice that the comment you replied to (which I would argue is actually demonstrably factually wrong in a few ways, and yet) recovered from its time in the depths beyond. This is likely owing to the fact that it was at least tactfully written, so replies could be written without having to work around the expletive content of the original comment; yours did not, arguably because it was not."

Yes, I did notice it had been upvoted. The fact that is was no longer gray caused me to question whether it was the comment I was referring to. :-) But it had to be, of course. And so I take your point.

I obviously went off "half-cocked", as I have done a couple of times lately. :-)

Generally speaking I appreciate your points, and I like HN.

Below your [2] link (the PG comment) is one [1] by a petercooper. I think I share petercooper's concerns about downvoting being a means of registering one's disagreement. If your opinions drift too far to the edges of the Overton window, then you stand to be downvoted. I don't like that.

I do take your point that comments that are polite and well formed (so to speak) tend not to be penalised in the long term. I'll watch for that in future.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=395197

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#284
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole idea of protocols instead of platforms is that there's no central owner to turn evil or foot the bill (having to make money to scale up to user growth can create a conflict of interest). Users aren't as locked-in as they would be on a closed platform. I wrote about this in detail last night: https://seirdy.one/2021/01/27/whatsapp-and-the-domestication... Users aren't necessarily the product in social media;…

What is to stop the inevitable roll up from a protocol into a platform? The protocol is presumably quite open, searchable and crawlable. Any platform would simply start with a client, then improve upon it and eventually users would orbit the platform rather than the protocol.

Long comment ahead. TLDR: This is a really good point; I'll need some time to think about this issue, and might even make a follow-up to my WhatsApp blog entry addressing it.

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It looks like there are two ways this can happen: 1) transformation and 2) migration.

1. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish: keep adding proprietary bits on top of the protocol until everyone's using what is essentially a proprietary platform.

2. A full migration. This is what happened to IM platforms that were once built atop Jabber/XMPP, like Google Talk.

I think the best way to keep this from happening is to make the open protocol robust enough to cover others' needs, and to get a large user base using different compliant client/server implementations to connect with each other. This is what's keeping Google's grip on email from growing more than it already has, and what prevented Microsoft from doing an EEE on the Web through Internet Explorer.

When diversity drops, an open platform can grow closed and allow domestication. Independent email providers must reckon with Google's spam filters, and non-Chromium browsers (Gecko-based, and to a lesser extend, Webkit-based browsers) are often treated as second-class citizens.

I might expand this into a follow-up article. While this article was an attempt at raising awareness and getting people to change their decision-making process when choosing platforms, my next article could be a call to action in which I encourage technical users to try clients/servers outside the mainstream and recommend good ones to their friends/families.

Thanks for your feedback, and for possibly inspiring my next post.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10 or 15 years ago people looked at web 1.0, saw many good communities and valuable conversations and said "we need to protect free speech". > Today people looks at Twitter/Facebook/YouTube/Reddit, see mismanaged cesspools and declare that we need centralized speech control. ...In other words people are completely taking all the amazing things we have today for granted.

Or perhaps realizing that those amazing things really aren't all that wonderful. Very few things are an unalloyed good.

Someone views a glass as half empty, I point out it can be viewed as half full.

Your someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet counter is that, no, it is half empty? Thanks for the contribution.

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