Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website after threats from CSW • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website after threats from CSW

#281

Post by qwytw » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #278

qwytw wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it's in a grid in which a 100% of all energy is renewable that's not that relevant because lowering total energy consumption would it make possible to decrease production in fossil fuel power plants.

That's a hypothesis, real mining is fixed in objective reality and is not affected by hypotheses.

It's more of an observation on how markets tend to work in general.

Unless we're only talking about Iceland or similar countries, which are not connected to any continental grid and have a surplus of cheap/free energy they have no where to put, increased demand for electricity will lead to increased production. This demand might be fulfilled by building new powerplants using renewable sources (since currently that's cheaper than fossil or nuclear. However as long as these new sources are connected to a grid which still has non-renewable power plants mining bitcoin will produce as much CO2 as using a washing machine, smelting aluminum or driving a tesla per kWh.

Now if (assuming everything else stays constant) for some reason all bitcoin mining stopped the decrease in demand would lead to decrease in production from more expensive (possibly due to regulatory overhead and/or subsidies to renewables) more fossil-fuel based energy sources

Re: Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website after threats from CSW

#282

Post by qwytw » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #279

arcticbull wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no, it simply does not. Citation needed.

It's also on the original claimant to prove that mining runs on CO2 energy.

What proportion of bitcoin mining is done in places which have either built new renewable power plants specifically for mining bitcoin or already have a surplus of energy and have no options to sell it to anyone else?

The only example I know is Iceland, but according to https://cbeci.org/mining_map it's not even in the top 10. Over 85% of all bitcoins are mined in these countries:

- 65% is mined in China with 721.2 g/kWh

- 7.2% in US: 417.305 g/kWh

- 6.9% in Russia: 517 g/kWh

- 6.17% in Kazakhstan (couldn't fine specific figure but around 80% produced power comes from Coal plants so gCO2/kWh must be very high)

The only country in the list which close to 0g/kWh is Norway at 0.48%.

Re: Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website after threats from CSW

#283

Post by jerry1979 » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:34 AM UTC

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #239

jerry1979 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As transactions grow in BCH, wouldn't it need larger and larger blocks? I think larger and larger blocks would centralize the nodes. Edit : Also, I don't think the Lightning Network behaves likes the credit card networks. What do you mean when you say that?

Please specify what you mean by "the nodes". As I've discussed in other comments, the whole "full node" concept is basically made up and absurd; the security and therefore decentralization of the network is provided by miners. The network is only truly "centralized" if a faction gains a sufficiently large portion of the hashpower to perform a 51% attack.

I went through and read your comments on full nodes, and I don't believe you have addressed the issue of UASFs nor have you addressed topics like privacy, trustlessness, and self determination. Most anyone who can afford to do hobby computing can run a full node. You miss the point of crypto networks unless you realize that the people are the network.

Re: Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website after threats from CSW

#284

Post by GoblinSlayer » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 8:23 AM UTC

qwytw wrote: post #282

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also on the original claimant to prove that mining runs on CO2 energy.

What proportion of bitcoin mining is done in places which have either built new renewable power plants specifically for mining bitcoin or already have a surplus of energy and have no options to sell it to anyone else? The only example I know is Iceland, but according to https://cbeci.org/mining_map it's not even in the top 10. Over 85% of all bitcoins are mined in these countries: - 65% is mined in China with 721.2 g…

China has history of building hydroelectric power plants with excess power and you need only a few instances of surplus energy as they can be bought at a discount, which makes mining more profitable. Fossil fuel can't provide surplus energy in principle and can't be attractive for mining.

Re: Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website after threats from CSW

#285

Post by GoblinSlayer » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 8:49 AM UTC

qwytw wrote: post #281

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a hypothesis, real mining is fixed in objective reality and is not affected by hypotheses.

It's more of an observation on how markets tend to work in general. Unless we're only talking about Iceland or similar countries, which are not connected to any continental grid and have a surplus of cheap/free energy they have no where to put, increased demand for electricity will lead to increased production. This demand might be fulfilled by building new powerplants using renewable sources (since currently that's…

Whether it can be used for other production or not, if mining runs on renewables, that's just it. How do you deliver energy for other production? Just send it across the country?

Re: Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website after threats from CSW

#286

Post by Loughla » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #249

Loughla wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not easy to get someone committed long term, in my experience, but startlingly easy to get someone forcefully admitted against their will for a 'short-term' stay, that may (does) turn into longer term care. You need three things: 1. a person who is naturally combative, 2. a wellness check performed by the police, and 3. an underfunded mental health facility. The police show up and the person gets combative, natu…

Also, needs to be a person who does not have family with the monetary and system-navigating resources to try to keep them from getting committed. Poor and/or alone, not able to appear and speak like a "respectable professional", you're fucked. Or in your example if you have family that wants you to be committed and has money and the ability to appear and speak professionally and navigate beurocracies, oh yeah you're…

I don't know why it looks like you're being downvoted. Your comment adds to the conversation, and is correct.

The students who have the hardest time with this sort of controlling family are the ones who have family that are wealthy and well-connected. That's not saying there aren't low-income folks with these problems; they just don't know how to navigate the systems.

Re: Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website after threats from CSW

#287

Post by qwytw » Tue, Jan 26, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #285

qwytw wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more of an observation on how markets tend to work in general. Unless we're only talking about Iceland or similar countries, which are not connected to any continental grid and have a surplus of cheap/free energy they have no where to put, increased demand for electricity will lead to increased production. This demand might be fulfilled by building new powerplants using renewable sources (since currently that's…

Whether it can be used for other production or not, if mining runs on renewables, that's just it. How do you deliver energy for other production? Just send it across the country?

So you are saying that there a miners running on energy from power generators specifically built for them and they are not connected to the grid?

Can you gave any examples on where this is happening?