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Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

courtlistener.com

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Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#281

Post by the_pwner224 »

hairofadog wrote: post #97

Is anyone else getting exhausted by these discussions? This is an important topic and I have strong opinions about it and the events surrounding it but gosh, something about the tenor of the back-and-forth in here is just wearing me out.

I read TFA and came back to upvote the post. Given that this is HN I expected to find some good discussion in the comments - and there is a bit, increasing over time - but there's just so much propaganda / outright stupid stuff here in the comments.

This article seems like it should be on HN, but the stuff in the comments made me want to flag it (I didn't). Fortunately it seems the good discussion is coming out on top over time, and the worst comments do get down voted & flagged pretty quickly. But, as you said, there is a lot of repetitive back-and-forth here which has already been done over the past few days.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#282

Post by djsumdog »

gameswithgo wrote: post #224
djsumdog wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you remember the court testimony where Zuckerburge avoided the entire question about if they collude with other companies to make these decisions on the backend? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXuk-WSDDRw Apple may have banned Parler and then Google just decided to go with it, followed by AWS. However, it may also be equally valid they colluded via private channels to make this happen. BOTH ARE EQUALLY POSSIBLE.…

I've been on the internet since it started and every forum I've been on has removed users and or posts for a wide range of reasons. Including just being rude, as hackernews does. So I don't really see this as any kind of "free fall". It is just the usual way of things.

It's not the usual way of things. They're not removing a few individually flagged post. FB is erasing massive numbers of communities, many just because they lean right. Reddit deleting over 2,000+ subreddits in the past year is just business as usual?

No, that's fucking targeted attacks against opinions they do not like. This is absolutely not business as usual. Everything about this is massive and it's morally reprehensible. It may not be illegal, but it's fucking wrong and insane.

It also shows that Big Tech is afraid. They're afraid and they're cowards. Regulating speech and language and blanket censorship are tools of authoritarians, not of people who believe in democracy and liberty.

Show me a single nation where censorship lead to a more free and open State.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#283

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

whymauri wrote: post #143
Miner49er wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parler is founded on the idea of absolutely unmoderated speech. They claim they are for free speech, but they aren't even close. They remove all kinds of things, just not enough of the things that Amazon wanted. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200630/23525844821/parle...

No 'obscene usernames' is actually hilarious to me. The bastion of free speech won't even allow users to choose their own handles.

I'm confused as to how some people here are simultaneously digging on Parler for speech they "allowed", and then also that "they weren't really free speech".

What is it you wanted them to do? I think it's pretty reasonable to not have "See me on Parler @ParlerLovesNaziPussy" as that content that Parler could not control outside of their platform.

Restricting usernames seems like a prudent move, even for a free speech platform.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#284

Post by throw_nbvc1234 »

IF a company's terms of service refer (or intend to refer) to some kind of external standard (such as federal law) why should the company itself have the power to determine what does or doesn't meet that standard.

In the USA, there's a government body which can make a preliminary judgment on this, it's called the courts. Why shouldn't Amazon be compelled to get a preliminary opinion from a judge on whether this is illegal or not. Based on that decision they can preemptively remove the content and let the defendant "appeal" (probably incorrect legal term) the decision. If the court rules it's not illegal, then there should be no risk of legal liability to continuing to provide the service.

If things are parler are as bad as people are making it out to be (i haven't been following it closely) then this should be a trivial step that legitimizes the decision.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#285

Post by helsinkiandrew »

Nacdor wrote: post #80

Glenn Greenwald has been investigating the planning of the Capitol protests and says "it was largely done on Facebook". So far he hasn't been able to identify a single person who was arrested and active on Parler: > Do you know how many of the people arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion were active users of Parler? Zero. The planning was largely done on Facebook. This is all a bullshit pretext for silenci…

> Do you know how many of the people arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion were active users of Parler? Zero

Conspiracy theories aside Parler wasn’t removed in relation to involvement with the capital invasion. They got booted off for poor moderation - repeatedly not being willing to do anything about illegal/hate content and the increase in number of complaints.

I don’t think Amazon or Apple (and to a lesser extent Google) can be viewed as competitors to Parler in any material way.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#286

Post by Phil_Latio »

bigtones wrote: post #94

1). AWS can suspend service for any customer immediately upon giving that customer notice. They do not have to provide a "remediation period" or give the customer any grace time at all. Every customer agrees to this as part of the AWS Customer Agreement 2). AWS can terminate an account immediately if they deem you in violation of their policies instead of a suspension - as was the case with Parler. It's all in the AW…

I see the following:

> We may terminate this Agreement for any reason by providing you at least 30 days’ advance notice.

and

> Either party may terminate this Agreement for cause if the other party is in material breach of this Agreement and the material breach remains uncured for a period of 30 days from receipt of notice by the other party.

The latter obviosuly applies here. Am I missing something?

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#287

Post by simonbarker87 »

meekrohprocess wrote: post #132
axlee wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US government should also move to immediately outlaw targeted algorithmic advertising, which would make a huge impact on Big Tech's sectarian violence cashcow. That is an interesting proposition, but I wonder what would fill the void created. I believe advertising does not increase consumption per-se, but that it redistributes it among a different set of product and services, so who would be the winners and los…

What's wrong with targeting ads based on subject matter? TV channels and magazines know how this works. If the page is about fashion, sell ad space to clothing companies. If the page is about travel, sell it to hospitality companies and tourism boards. If the page is about politics or finance, sell it to people making catheters and stair lifts. It's much less creepy than trying to spy on everybody who reads the page,…

My cofounder and I used to manage a £100k/year ad budget and we did TV, news papers, radio and Facebook. The level of engagement and ROI on Facebook was insane compared to the others specifically because we could tweak and cohort up the audience so specifically - we even commented how terrifyingly powerful it was and that it was a good job we were only selling a home efficiency central heating product because in “the wrong hands” it could clearly be devastating - you just don’t get that level of granularity with more mass media outlets, even when you break it down by readership/demographic

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#288

Post by henriquez »

walrus01 wrote: post #237
Nacdor wrote: post #80

Glenn Greenwald has been investigating the planning of the Capitol protests and says "it was largely done on Facebook". So far he hasn't been able to identify a single person who was arrested and active on Parler: > Do you know how many of the people arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion were active users of Parler? Zero. The planning was largely done on Facebook. This is all a bullshit pretext for silenci…

> Glenn Greenwald has been investigating the planning of the Capitol protests and says "it was largely done on Facebook". Glenn Greenwald also chose to make the fake Giuliani/Hunter Biden laptop story the hill on which he wished to die upon, related to his resignation from the Intercept, so whatever credibility he had remaining has long since departed. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=greenwald...

What was fake about the Hunter Biden allegations? It was proven that Hunter had shady dealings with various foreign companies.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#289

Post by jkaplowitz »

Natsu wrote: post #193
mhh__ wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really scared to trust Greenwald on anything political at the moment. For a start, the silencing competitors argument doesn't really work with AWS because they just do hosting.

> For a start, the silencing competitors argument doesn't really work with AWS because they just do hosting. The complaint alleges there are deeper ties: Less than a month ago, AWS announced with a press release a new multi-year deal with Twitter. AWS will “provide global cloud infrastructure to deliver Twitter timelines.” Twitter Selects AWS as Strategic Provider to Serve Timelines, Press Center, Amazon, (Dec. 15, 2…

That's a pretty typical-looking big customer kind of arrangement for a cloud provider (including the press release), not anything seemingly deeper than typical. (To be clear, I have no inside info on this deal to know for sure, but I've worked in the past at a different big cloud provider and later at a big customer of that cloud provider.)

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#290

Post by nullc »

walrus01 wrote: post #237
Nacdor wrote: post #80

Glenn Greenwald has been investigating the planning of the Capitol protests and says "it was largely done on Facebook". So far he hasn't been able to identify a single person who was arrested and active on Parler: > Do you know how many of the people arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion were active users of Parler? Zero. The planning was largely done on Facebook. This is all a bullshit pretext for silenci…

> Glenn Greenwald has been investigating the planning of the Capitol protests and says "it was largely done on Facebook". Glenn Greenwald also chose to make the fake Giuliani/Hunter Biden laptop story the hill on which he wished to die upon, related to his resignation from the Intercept, so whatever credibility he had remaining has long since departed. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=greenwald...

> the fake Giuliani/Hunter Biden laptop story

What was fake about it?

AFAIK no factual claim has been refuted and some have been robustly proved (e.g. the gmail sent emails that have been published pass DKIM validation).

If you want to say the timing of it was a transparent attempt at political manipulation, I'd fully agree.

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