China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#281

Post by newen » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

jonathannat wrote: post #169

f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

The era of CCP economic rise is over. Middle income trap and aging demographics dictate as much. CCP will now have to contend with - internal turmoil - political infighting - encirclement by democracies (India, Japan, Australia, US, UK, Canada, France, South Korea, Taiwan). Once Merkel is out in sept 2021, Germany will be onboard - negative sentiment from most of population in the world due to covid - exploding debt/…

Westerners have been saying the era of Chinese economic rise is over for more than 20 years now. For pretty much all of the same reasons. One would think the lesson would be learned after 20 years.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#282

Post by cambalache » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

brabel wrote: post #206

cambalache wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me congratulate you on a more balanced comment on China than 99% of the users here. It is still a little bit naive or supremacist but dont let us the perfect being enemy of the good.

Ah.... thanks??! But supremacist, how??

> Now that people have a decent life standard, they should, and probably will, raise against injustices being committed by the governing party.

This has not happened at all in the US with 5X the income per capita (at least in nominal terms), why are you expecting to happen in China?Maybe the relationship is inverse, the more money the Chinese have the less probable they will rebel, same as in America and the rest of the world

> It is really painful to see China moving back to authoritarianism in this way after a couple of decades in which it looked like they were embracing, slowly but surely, more freedoms and human rights.

No country moves in a straight line (assuming you can even trace its "movement"), you should notice that easily with the US. Compared to 30 years ago China is better in almost all indicators, and yes that includes things like freedom of expression, because despite of still having an iron hand on censorship the CCP cannot avoid the common folk to communicate among themselves in million ways. Western people are too naive or arrogant if they think the regular Chinese just buy wholesale everything that is told. This does not mean the other naive take of course, that they dont buy anything that the politicians say and they will align with the western countries if they just had the chance. It turns out, surprise surprise, chinese are as much people as the Americans.

> The problem is that they have misguided fears of what may happen if the people is given too much freedom and try to mercilessly prevent their fears from becoming reality

This fear is not misguided and it is not exclusive to the Chinese by the way. The external threat is very real, and the CCP as every power structure takes very seriously the internal threats too. If you think the US is different I kindly invite you to revise the history on how any political movement not called mainstream Democrat/Republican party has been treated covertly and in the open by the power structures in America. So again, you are not saying nothing new or particular about China that you could not repeat about your own country.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#283

Post by whimsicalism » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:56 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #188

eloff wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you know that makes him trustworthy? This is just a rumor spread by a single person at the point. Not very substantial at all. About as believable as when Sally at work says there's layoffs coming - but she's the receptionist.

Because I trust the reporters at RFA and RFA's long-earned reputation not to select Sally the receptionist as a credible source. That's the difference between bloggers and journalists. That's why I want to know who this person is, and why I asked the critic for more information about him. I trust RFA more than I trust some rando commenter on HN.

> RFA's long-earned reputation

Does RFA have a much better reputation than I realized?

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#284

Post by blackrock » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

winrid wrote: post #148

star-trek-fleet wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth Chinese people are jointly invest in that venture, by (not limited to): * Sacrifice family and personal time, by hundreds of millions of passent migration workers. * Sacrifice health and life quality, even today 996 still a norm, and you can imagine what have been since the opening up * Environment, early p…

996 is no joke. Visiting friends in China, after dinner we went back to our hotel. They went back to work. They were in tech.

I hope they’re getting lucrative stock options to make their 996 worth it.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#285

Post by orblivion » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 9:00 PM UTC

f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

You don't become a billionaire by being naive. Why would anybody choose to become a billionaire under such conditions? Was there a chance he'd come out on top?

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#286

Post by imperfectcats » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 9:01 PM UTC

newen wrote: post #278

f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

He is just lying low. He is not missing. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/alibaba-founder-jack...

Just like Shelley Miscavige is free and safe.

I often wonder how much the CCP studies Scientology, as I think Scientology has been really successful in avoiding any real consequences.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#287

Post by guhcampos » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 9:02 PM UTC

This is a highly speculative article with vast, global, implications.

People should be taking this with Kilograms of salt.

Food for thought: if this was to be true we would be seeing several bit coin whale operations going on from insiders, and this isn't the case even with the substantial drops in bitcoin value in the last 24 hours.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#288

Post by onethought » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #248

f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

The blame mainly lies with the Xi dictatorship, where as previously the CCP was ruled by committee. I can't imagine the CCP doing this in the era before Xi and post Deng Xiaoping. imo the CCP is gone. It's the Xi Jinping Party now The good news for the West and China's Asian competitors is that he is effectively helping slow and cripple China's progress. Xi advocates a return to Mao centralism while ignoring all the…

This.

Everyone is talking like the CCP are the culprit here. There is big turmoil within the party right now, because Xi has taken absolute control of all areas of government.

He wants to be a Mao 2 and all the moderates in the party are gone (Deng, Chou, Bo, Hu) The good thing about this is hopefully when Xi dies it gives China an opportunity to change things maybe even away from the party. The bad thing is... well dictatorships...

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#289

Post by jonathannat » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

newen wrote: post #281

jonathannat wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The era of CCP economic rise is over. Middle income trap and aging demographics dictate as much. CCP will now have to contend with - internal turmoil - political infighting - encirclement by democracies (India, Japan, Australia, US, UK, Canada, France, South Korea, Taiwan). Once Merkel is out in sept 2021, Germany will be onboard - negative sentiment from most of population in the world due to covid - exploding debt/…

Westerners have been saying the era of Chinese economic rise is over for more than 20 years now. For pretty much all of the same reasons. One would think the lesson would be learned after 20 years.

over the years, demographics change, macro economics change, geopolitics change, etc etc etc

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#290

Post by wesleywt » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #200

jonathannat wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The era of CCP economic rise is over. Middle income trap and aging demographics dictate as much. CCP will now have to contend with - internal turmoil - political infighting - encirclement by democracies (India, Japan, Australia, US, UK, Canada, France, South Korea, Taiwan). Once Merkel is out in sept 2021, Germany will be onboard - negative sentiment from most of population in the world due to covid - exploding debt/…

Yes, many good points, but some of the same problems exist in the West and in the Asian democracies: covid, debt, aging demographics. China does have one compelling advantage: its enormous population. Even if a horrible plague or even a civil war happened and 100m people died, they still have plenty of people to accomplish anything they want. They have Ph.D. scientists, many trained at top Western universities, who a…

The incentives are pretty bad for researchers in China. Cheating and corruption is the best way to progress rather than innovation. I find it waste of time reading a Chinese scientific article, yet Chinese scientist in the US or Canada are brilliant.