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A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

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Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#281

Post by marcinzm »

DonnyV wrote: post #231

I think a lot of the back and forth in this thread is dancing around the edges of a couple questions. Who really owns a company? I know legally who owns it. But a company is nothing without the people that work in it and who generate the ideas who keep it going. Shouldn't the majority of people in that company benefit and have a say how its run? Why should a handful of people who don't run the day to day operation or…

The workers do benefit, they get paid a salary and get RSUs (whose value increases with stock price). Very large amounts of both depending on the role by both US and world standards. If they want to then they can invest that income into company stock and become shareholders. Then they benefit in perpetuity based on how much they invested.

edit: And this union includes part time cleaning staff which while vital to the functioning of a company hardly generate revolutionary ideas except in movies.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#282

Post by alisonkisk »

alistairSH wrote: post #267
karl11 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees can ask for better, but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. It seems clear to me that these are people who are unwilling to sacrifice some of the money they earn to follow their ideals and principles, so they are trying this instead. There are very few perils of leaving Google - a top tier company in an industry t…

* but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google* Oh how quickly we forget. It wasn't all that long ago that Google was involved in a massive wage fixing scandal (along with darn near every other major player in the "big tech").

There was no wage fixing. This was a non recruiting agreement that had an imputed effect of reducing wages.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#283

Post by inoop »

karl11 wrote: post #60

Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…

> engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better"

While I generally agree with the sentiment of your comment, I would like to point out that the above is only true for green card holders. There are a lot of H1B/L1B workers stuck at bad teams with high amounts of pressure/stress and incompetent or downright abusive managers.

For them, leaving the company isn't an option because it means leaving the country and leaving a life-changing amount of money on the table and denying their children the advantage of growing up in the US.

You might argue they can switch teams, which is technically true, but this can complicate and delay the green card process, and vindictive managers often smear engineers with HR because people bailing on them makes them look bad. At Amazon for example, particularly bad managers will PIP an engineer to block them from transferring teams.

So while in general engineers are treated well and can choose where they want to work, I think we should also show some solidarity with our friends who don't have the same options that we do.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#284

Post by sct202 »

rdgthree wrote: post #94

It seems incredibly significant that only 230 people are officially involved with these plans to unionize. As of 2019, Google had nearly 120,000 employees.[0] That seems quite small, relatively speaking. Legally (I think, just learning about this now), to form a union, a majority of workers must show their willingness to form a union. Alternatively, to choose an existing union to join, an election with 30% of the wor…

Traditional unions target specific job role at specific locations, where you only need people in that job at that location to vote for unionization. It seems like a lofty goal to try to unionize the whole company in one go, when you don't have a track record of successes at a small scale you can point to as reasons that this union is a good idea on a large scale.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#286

Post by finnthehuman »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #272
finnthehuman wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions Because everyone talking about unionization refuses to get into the nitty gritty of what I might gain, what I might lose, and the structural changes to the workplaces that are inherent with unionization. And if/when I/others start spitballing about what those might be we're treated like dolts uneducated on organized labor, and should just…

So you want someone who can tell you what the yet-to-be-negotiated contract with your employer will look like? Maybe you should be looking to join up with the Mage's Guild, I understand that their magic can see the future very clearly.

>So you want someone who can tell you what the yet-to-be-negotiated contract with your employer will look like?

In broad strokes, yes.

Here's an analogy: I know it's not implemented yet, but I want the design doc and market research, not just the elevator pitch.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#287

Post by gandutraveler »

avianlyric wrote: post #84
karl11 wrote: post #60

Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…

> People don't want to leave a cushy job for one where they would have to work harder for their money, so instead, they are trying other means to have their cake and eat it too. You're saying this like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't employees expect, and get, better working conditions? > engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better" How is individuals leaving "coll…

Unions will only help the rest & vest culture. I worked at Google and trust me there is so much fat that can be trimmed there. Especially the ones who have been there for 7+ years..

With unions it will get harder to fire them and at the same time they will need to be compensated equally.

Software is not a profession where output is proportional to work hours like blue collar jobs. This will demoralize engineers to work smarter & harder.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#288

Post by Mauricebranagh »

tjpnz wrote: post #145
chrisseaton wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't most employees also shareholders, in the tech industry? Don't we have representation through that mechanism and why isn't it enough?

That sounds more like a cooperative. Outside those situations stock ownership means very little for rank and file employees.

Especially with the multi class share structure with different voting rights.

And talking of employees shares lobbying for changes to the taxation of those to make it fairer would be an good thing for unions to lobby for

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#289

Post by Mauricebranagh »

inoop wrote: post #283
karl11 wrote: post #60

Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…

> engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better" While I generally agree with the sentiment of your comment, I would like to point out that the above is only true for green card holders. There are a lot of H1B/L1B workers stuck at bad teams with high amounts of pressure/stress and incompetent or downright abusive managers. For them, leaving the company isn't an optio…

Also the previous commentator doesn't understand what collective means here.
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