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Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

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Re: Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

#281

Post by superkuh »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #137
superkuh wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, like normal, the value of a Mac is in appealing to others not doing things on the computer.

? What part of “M1 outclasses every similar laptop” indicates to you that the MBA is a machine targeted at people who don’t do serious computer work (Whatever “serious” means)

First, the article is about performance benchmarks and how the M1 is not some magical entity like the Apple hype train has been screaming. Second, the comment I'm replying to is:

>for most use cases the apple's MBA offers much more value and will have slower depreciation.

You can build a fine computer with a $400 CPU and $500 left for the rest. One that will absolutely dominate any laptop over a long time span because laptops cannot dissipate heat forever (it's simple a matter of mass and shape).

Re: Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

#282

Post by jsjohnst »

sliken wrote: post #117
jsjohnst wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The M1 competitor with similar thermals, close IPC per core, and on board GPU is widly rumored to be announced in Jan at CES. Ok, so what you’re saying is that AMD is wildly rumored to have a processor that you might be able to find as an option on a niche (term not used in a negative sense) brand laptop in Summer 2021 that directly competes with Apple’s M1 processor available in Fall 2020 on their highest sold mod…

Have you looked at the laptop market lately? AMD has had quite a few design wins. Brands like Lenovo (including the Thinkpad, flex, and legion), HP (pavilion), Dell (including inspiron, gaming, and Alienware lines), Asus (Studiobooks, zenbooks, TUF, and ROG), Acer Aspire, and MSI, and the Microsoft Surface. I wouldn't call all of those "niche". AMD has made a surprisingly quick move from the bargain basement laptops…

> AMD has made a surprisingly quick move from the bargain basement laptops

I specifically called out niche as not a negative term for this reason. I didn’t mean to imply bargain basement, but more that high end processors like this would only be included on a few models. Things like gaming or developer focused machines vs something built for a wider audience (like the current M1 machines are).

> So I'm comparing laptops available in Nov (although people I know couldn't get theirs till Dec) to laptops I expect to be available in Feb, but that's speculative of course.

I walked into an Apple store in November and walked out (in under 3min I might add) and had an M1 13” MBP. I think them taking my temperature at the door took almost as long as checkout. Having closely followed CES announcements over the years, I respectfully disagree that there will be laptops in February available for delivery/pickup using the processor just announced the month before, but there is a slim chance so I won’t bet against it. Much more likely to be May/June/July based on past experience.

Re: Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

#283

Post by woah »

hu3 wrote: post #188
darthrupert wrote: post #141

To summarise: Top-of-the-line desktop computer barely beats an ultraslim passively cooled laptop.

The article states the opposite: > Java Renaissance: Ryzen 5800x is faster than M1 in most tasks by a large margin. > Java SciMark 2.0: In the SOR benchmark, the 5800X is more than twice as fast. For others, the 5800X is slightly faster, with the exception of Monte Carlo Integraton scored 2.7% lower than M1. > Java DaCapo: 5800X is mostly faster by a significant margin, except for the H2O benchmark which is more than…

The author seems to consider “large margin” and “significantly better” to be around 25%. Not sure most people would agree with that. Also, can you imagine what would happen if the m1 was overclocked and actively cooled?

Re: Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

#284

Post by speedgoose »

tonyhb wrote: post #246
speedgoose wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you have to assemble the pc and install an operating system on it. It's really not comparable.

You also have to unbox each component vs' just the macbook air, am I right? Sarcasm aside, I don't think assembling a PC has any factor in performance/price here...

@dang Someone flagged my comments. I think they were very normal, about the value of a MacBook air M1 compared to buying parts and assembling a PC, but perhaps they were against the rules.

Re: Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

#285

Post by hu3 »

woah wrote: post #283
hu3 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article states the opposite: > Java Renaissance: Ryzen 5800x is faster than M1 in most tasks by a large margin. > Java SciMark 2.0: In the SOR benchmark, the 5800X is more than twice as fast. For others, the 5800X is slightly faster, with the exception of Monte Carlo Integraton scored 2.7% lower than M1. > Java DaCapo: 5800X is mostly faster by a significant margin, except for the H2O benchmark which is more than…

The author seems to consider “large margin” and “significantly better” to be around 25%. Not sure most people would agree with that. Also, can you imagine what would happen if the m1 was overclocked and actively cooled?

25%? Ryzen is twice as fast on some benchmarks. And that's not even the fastest Ryzen chip mind you.

And no, we can't imagine what would happen if M1 was overclocked because it's Apple. It doesn't allow you to do that on it's locked down system.

Re: Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

#286

Post by acdha »

mahkeiro wrote: post #173
darthrupert wrote: post #141

To summarise: Top-of-the-line desktop computer barely beats an ultraslim passively cooled laptop.

Since when twice as fast is barely?

What are you basing “twice as fast” on? The margins shown are nowhere near that across the board and it took over overclocking a system with 4 times the RAM to produce the most decisive wins. Java is sensitive to memory pressure so just the RAM alone is a significant factor.

Re: Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

#288

Post by eloff »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #104
eloff wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean the 3rd gen server chips, they're not released yet. Also there are diminishing returns as core count increases. I'm doubting that a 5950x is worth it over the 5900x for me.

You don't run parallel compiles? They can use all your cores, with a linear speedup ... I meant the latest Ryzen Threadrippers, whatever "generation" they are now. The 3970X would likely be a good example.

The compiles are parallel, but not all work can be done in parallel or divided among 32 threads equally. So from 24 to 32 threads is not typically a 33% increase unless your compiles are huge (like the Linux kernel).

Re: Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

#289

Post by eloff »

reissbaker wrote: post #106
jzelinskie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Zen, you actually want to run your memory clock at a multiple of the FCLK and not as high as possible. So making the RAM frequency the same as the M1 might have actually harmed performance.

I've read various theories about the right memory clock speed to use for Zen, but in all the gaming benchmarks I've seen, faster RAM clock speed ends up resulting in higher performance.

Especially true with Zen 3.

Re: Ryzen 5800X vs. M1: Programming benchmarks

#290

Post by lliamander »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #264
threeseed wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only part of Apple's marketing material that even references desktops are related to integrated graphics. So what's clear is that a lot of people are acting irrationally especially since the M1 is their low-end laptop CPU. At least wait for their mid-range laptop/desktop CPU scheduled for next year to make proper judgements.

Also let's not fail to mention the 5800x is a 600 dollar desktop CPU that consumes twice the maximum amount of power the M1 consumes.... while idling

A lot of that is the IO die. The mobile equivalent will have 85-90% of the single-core performance with a 15W TDP. Apple still has better perf-per-watt, but it will be a much more apt comparison.

Also the MSRP is $450. It may be a bit more expensive now, but in a month or two the price will drop.

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