Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's one of the reasons the 2nd Amendment was written; to avoid tyrannical rule, and to allow the "peasants" (regular people) to revolt if a tyrant ever took power.
As a European I've always thought that this bit of US law has not aged all that well. Imagine a tyrant takes hold of the US armed forces and uses that to overthrow the rest of government so they can rule alone. The US armed forces have equipment going up to tanks, fighter jets, bombers, drones and nuclear weapons. A militia is going to struggle to field even heavy machine guns, let alone an air force. I doubt they'd…
Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
281–290 of 326 posts
Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm all for citizens owning cruise missiles but, I think that's missing the point. The point is that an organized and armed population of say Vietnamese farmers could theoretically hold off against the largest power in the world until they decided to move on
Sure, but after they move on you're left with nothing but your homes burnt down and your family dead, while they're still the largest economic and military power in the world living it up in their first-world mansions. Pyrrhic victories taste just like defeat.
Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
#283One thing to keep in mind when imagining "Knight vs Peasant" combat is that it's not like they would be fighting in some sort of idealized battle arena. Knights have horses and peasants do not, which means that barring exceptional circumstances, the knight has the initiative to determine when and where combat happens. People without horses have an extremely difficult time fighting people with horses, beyond just the…
Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Peasant autonomy and self-defense of any kind could not be tolerated." In the United States, "gun control" (restrictions on gun rights) is universally classified as a liberal/left policy and the absence of "gun control" is classified as a conservative/right policy. Without entering into a discussion of these politics I would like to point out that those classifications are completely backwards. The US Second Amendme…
Please do not confuse "liberalism", the moral philosophy espoused by Locke/Montesquieu/Mill et al., with "liberal" as used as an adjective in modern-day US politics. The two have almost nothing to do with each other.
The Rawlsian veil of ignorance[1] that the modern American left is pretty much based on is largely an extension of Locke.
Sure, there are some economic ideas that the early liberals had that most modern liberals (and modern conservatives for that matter) would eschew, but to reduce their thinking to being purely libertarian does a disservice to the modern left, which needs all the historical support it can muster.
Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
#285One thing to keep in mind when imagining "Knight vs Peasant" combat is that it's not like they would be fighting in some sort of idealized battle arena. Knights have horses and peasants do not, which means that barring exceptional circumstances, the knight has the initiative to determine when and where combat happens. People without horses have an extremely difficult time fighting people with horses, beyond just the…
A good counter example is the Battle of Poitiers in 1356. There, the English archers not only defeated the French nobility in melee' but captured a good many of them, a total catastrophe for France. Though this battle may be the exception that proves the rule, more than anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Poitiers
They are not great counterexamples in the "Knight vs Peasant" argument because you're talking about an entire English army led by an English prince. In the slightly larger-scope argument of knights vs footmen in combat, sure, it's a very good example.
Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
#286We actually had a drill called the "villains blow"[0] designed to deal with an untrained assailant attempting an overly strong top down blow. The basic story is that a peasant (villain basically means "poor" back in the day) has gotten their hands on a sword and would like to express their displeasure about how their life is going on you. It's scary how effective the drill is, during slow speed training you have to actually fight to slow the weapon down. At speed it'll end an engagement with one blow; someone chopped in the neck tends to stop fighting very quickly. In a sword fight between a trained person and an untrained person, the trained combatant will win convincingly the vast majority of the time.
Beyond that there were fairly complex drills about fighting multiple opponents when unarmored, which we never practiced because it's a logistical nightmare. It can be done, but it's going to be very hard to pull off; you effectively have to move in a way to make your opponents interfere with each other. Doable, but since unarmored longsword fencing is a very high stakes game, chances are even if it works you're leaving with an interesting scar and perhaps fewer fingers than you started with.
One manuscript (I forget which) had some section that basically said this "if you find yourself set upon by five or more peasants while in harness (hard plate), stand as you will and cut them down one by one". It is extremely hard to kill someone wearing full plate armor if they're standing and prepared. You either need overwhelming numbers, specialized weapons designed to defeat hard armor, or they need to be knocked down onto the ground first (there's a reason "he fell" was a euphemism for death in combat). Ideally (if you're not the knight), you'd like to see all three. This is what happened in Agincourt, where freaked out English archers (who wouldn't be ransomed if they lost) swarmed and drowned the exhausted French knights in the mud while beating them to death with hammers for good measure.
As an aside, the difficulty of getting up in armor is vastly overstated[1]. Yes, plate armor is heavy, but any armor that you can't move in is a death trap, plus the vast majority of this stuff was worn by men who would be in fantastic shape, since fighting was their only job. The problem with plate armor isn't that it's impossible to get up in, the problem with plate armor is that it's impossible to get up when you're being opposed. Think less "I can't get up" and more "I can't get up with another guy on top of me trying to kill me". Plus while armor is heavy (50-60lbs isn't unusual), it's not that heavy; for comparison a typical Marine might carry 100-200lbs into Afghanistan.
Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Peasant autonomy and self-defense of any kind could not be tolerated." In the United States, "gun control" (restrictions on gun rights) is universally classified as a liberal/left policy and the absence of "gun control" is classified as a conservative/right policy. Without entering into a discussion of these politics I would like to point out that those classifications are completely backwards. The US Second Amendme…
Incorrect. Republicans have successfully branded themselves as gun advocates, and Democrats as anti-gun. There are as many liberal gun owners as conservatives. Liberals just don't jerk off with their guns on social media.
Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Peasant autonomy and self-defense of any kind could not be tolerated." In the United States, "gun control" (restrictions on gun rights) is universally classified as a liberal/left policy and the absence of "gun control" is classified as a conservative/right policy. Without entering into a discussion of these politics I would like to point out that those classifications are completely backwards. The US Second Amendme…
Incorrect. Republicans have successfully branded themselves as gun advocates, and Democrats as anti-gun. There are as many liberal gun owners as conservatives. Liberals just don't jerk off with their guns on social media.
Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Peasant autonomy and self-defense of any kind could not be tolerated." In the United States, "gun control" (restrictions on gun rights) is universally classified as a liberal/left policy and the absence of "gun control" is classified as a conservative/right policy. Without entering into a discussion of these politics I would like to point out that those classifications are completely backwards. The US Second Amendme…
Incorrect. Republicans have successfully branded themselves as gun advocates, and Democrats as anti-gun. There are as many liberal gun owners as conservatives. Liberals just don't jerk off with their guns on social media.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/21496/gun-ownership-higher-amon...
But this is way too reductive. There's lots of gun ownership in the US across all political affiliations. Additionally, gun ownership is independent of someone's views on guns. I know people with liberal views on gun ownership who don't own guns and people with restrictive views on gun ownership who do own guns.
Re: Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle?
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remember those guys who let their house guest attack the US a little under 20yr ago? Last I checked they're in the process of getting their country back. The "but they have tanks and nukes" argument has been long debunked. To actually run an oppressive nation you need boots on the ground which requires very strong support from a very sizeable minority (e.g South Africa, Northern Ireland). The less firepower the peasa…
>quickly the Troubles wrapped up once the bombs started going off in England The Birmingham pub bombings (for example) happened in 1974. The Belfast agreement (ending the troubles so far) was signed in 1998. >requires very strong support from a very sizeable minority (e.g South Africa, Northern Ireland) Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Northern_Ireland . You will note that Northern Ireland has a…
NA had two minorities with opposite enough ideologies that they got violent. The UK would have never succeeded in keeping the peace there were it not for having a good chunk of the population on "their side". The violence eventually came to mostly an end because the IRA blew up enough crap that the British were willing to mostly throw them a bone in the Good Friday agreement and everyone was sick enough of the fighting to reach an agreement. The agreement was satisfactory enough for enough people that most combatants laid down their arms. An agreement so favorable (i.e. favorable enough to get them to stop fighting) to the republican faction(s) would never have been reached without the violence spilling over into England to a greater extent in the 1980s and making people ask tough questions like "why does what they do even matter to us?". You can call that a "loss" or a "win" or a "pivot to drug trafficking" or whatever you want to make it compatible with your politics. The framing doesn't really change what happened. Considering your characterization of North Ireland I don't expect you to frame the issue in a neutral way.
Consider how the troubles might have played out without loyalist factions. Starts looking a lot like some other, nastier, more resource sucking conflicts. Local support is required any time you want to make a bunch of people do stuff you don't want them to.