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Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

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Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#281

Post by jayd16 »

temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

If the app store is so great just open up the platform. People will choose to use Apple's great store.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#282

Post by callamdelaney »

echelon wrote: post #167
temp667 wrote: post #97

Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular. You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist). "Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that note…

Your perspective makes me sad. I'm honestly depressed because people rush to defend bad behavior of their favorite monopoly. Like, physically holding back tears. Serious. What is wrong with us? Our computers and technology have been locked down by anti-competitive juggernauts. Our legislators have written laws that cede more of our liberties and privacy. This modern internet sucks so much and I want to go back to whe…

The fact that this person opinion on the app store makes you cry may say more about you than them..

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#283

Post by user5994461 »

temp667 wrote: post #238
user5994461 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference, all of these practices are abusive and will void the subscription contract in civil law (Europe). Ask for a refund and perform a charge back if they don't refund. I wrote a detailed article about it, what every developer should know about software subscriptions and civil law: https://thehftguy.com/2020/09/08/what-every-developer-should...

Good lord, when you say someone has to go through a civil law litigation (in the US this is a nightmare) to just do a basic unsubscribe - you AGAIN demonstrate why the app store is popular. Epic doesn't allow a civil law process, they force arbitration anyways. So the deck is stacked against you

I'm speaking toward Europeans of course, the US does not operate under civil law.

Epic doesn't get to set the law, the country where the consumer resides does. France for example operates under civil law and arbitration clauses are void (in consumer contracts not in B2B).

Users should ask for refund and charge back if they can't get a refund, preferably keeping a paper trail of the requests. The legal details are only relevant if one goes to litigation (this sadly happens regularly for example with children bankrupting their parents with in-game purchases).

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#284

Post by sithlord »

christopherwxyz wrote: post #96
ticmasta wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70% of an apple purchase goes to the app developer. That's not ripping off developers.

Apple doesn’t charge itself a 30% fee when it competes with other developers for the same paying users.

And you dont charge yourself what the lawn companies charge you to cut your yard. I don't really get your point.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#285

Post by _mkef »

Razengan wrote: post #149

Oh fuck Tinder: In addition to being riddled with scammers and "escort" services in some regions and choosing to do nothing about it, older men are charged more for using Tinder's premium service: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24129986 I do not respect Tinder at all. They have scummy practices and I actually got upset with Apple for giving them featured spots on the App Store so often. Talk about biting the ha…

Chaotic evil.

I'm all for them being shitty enough to drive people off the platform.

https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/20/problem-in-tinder-dating-a...

Sounds real fun! Of course unless you do your research you'd never find out how little they care about user safety.

Since I'm ranting, I don't see getting trapped in the Social Media matrix as being good for anyone. The old fashioned way to meet folks was to be active in your community. Since that's now seen as optional we have an entire generation of isolated miserable people.

The Social Media Dilemma ( Netflix movie )goes into greater detail , but you need real life human interaction to function. I know I've had no issue making friends (etc), since I became social media free.

The world is an awesome place. Instead of wasting money on Tinder Passport, you can get a real passport and see new places. A flight to Europe can be as low as 300$ !

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#286

Post by gowld »

onewhonknocks wrote: post #165
AlexandrB wrote: post #86

From https://appfairness.org/our-vision/ > No app store owner should prohibit third parties from offering competing app stores on the app store owner’s platform, or discourage developers or consumers from using them. I don't disagree but does this mean Sony should allow, for example, Steam to be installed on the PS5? Or is the definition of "App Store" used here narrow and arbitrary?

I think that if you own a store, you should be able to make the decision regarding which products you want to stock on your shelves.

If that store isn't a monopoly and the decisions aren't for purposes of restraining trade.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#287

Post by AlexandrB »

acituan wrote: post #244
ilikehurdles wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want a world where we're free to install whatever we want on our devices or distribute our hard work to others without having to implement it 5 different ways. I do too, but your appeal to emotion is off-topic. This has nothing to do with the lawsuit. None of these companies want that, nor are they working toward that. Epic and Spotify are pushing their own walled gardens, they just want to do it with a bigger pr…

> Epic and Spotify are pushing their own walled gardens, they just want to do it with a bigger profit margin. There is absolutely no problem with that because it cures the one and only walled garden problem. If they implement a subpar walled garden, it will be up to the users to exercise choice on using them, which they currently can't. This is the core of the opponent processes of markets. It is irrelevant to demand…

> If they implement a subpar walled garden, it will be up to the users to exercise choice on using them, which they currently can't.

Epic games store is a very subpar walled garden. It's the only way to access several games that are either in exclusivity agreements with Epic or were purchased by Epic outright (RIP Rocket League). Spotify is (IMHO) a subpar walled garden. They recently purchased exclusivity for Joe Rogan, if you want to listen to him in the future you have to use Spotify. I don't see where in this process I get a choice of anything. These companies are not fighting for consumer choice, they just want to move more power over the consumer from one middle man (Apple) to another (themselves).

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#288

Post by colinmhayes »

vonwoodson wrote: post #80

But, can we just say: f ck Fortnite. This is the wolf calling for homes to be built of straw. We hate “free to play”/“pay to win” and in-app purchases. We HATE* them. Thank god that Apple is taking a stand. I haven’t been so happy with a company since they refused to unlock that dude’s phone in California a few years back. (Which, I know, the lawsuit ended the same day an iOS “security” patch came out.) Seriously. If…

Horrible take. Doesn't matter what you think of fortnite(it's not pay to win) Epic succeeding in making their own app store would be incredible for developers and consumers. You seem to be blinded by some sort of misguided rage.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#289

Post by zhobbs »

gowld wrote: post #277
zhobbs wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it should be something like, "if your platform doesn't allow side loading of other apps, or other app stores, then the store on that platform can take no more than X% commission on sales"

Does Steam allow side loading into it's launcher/library?

Windows, Linux, and Mac do. I'm proposing this scoped just to device+OS combo that you purchased.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#290

Post by 52-6F-62 »

izacus wrote: post #146
karpierz wrote: post #19

If I build an operating system + hardware, should I be legally mandated to provide tooling to make it easy for users to find and install arbitrary software?

In ideal world, yes. OS vendor should not dictate what runs on the OS and under which conditions. Same for HW vendors. This is a prerequirement for free market to work - the option for new competition to crop up in different fields and give you more options, more innovation and the ability to beat the platform owner at their own stagnation. This does not exclude the platform owner from launching their own stack and c…

And if there were no App Store at all would Apple have been obligated to allow one? Or any third party software? That seems to be the argument being made.

Frankly, if it's between opening up iOS to all software or no third-party software at all, I'd take the latter. That's the peace of mind I wanted when I bought my iOS item. Having a singular, curated App Store is the next best thing for that kind of platform. There are other platforms available for other designs and purposes.

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