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Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

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Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#281

Post by jonas21 »

0x0 wrote: post #63
saagarjha wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is correct. But I know for many apps building for iOS 14 is a requirement or bad things will happen™.

Care to elaborate? Did Apple break backwards compatibility with apps built on the iOS 13 SDK with no way to work around it? Seems hard to believe that everyone upgrading to iOS 14 will end up with no functional third party apps today?

One example is the new photos permission API. If you don't rebuild for iOS 14, your app will continue to work... but your users get a horrendous experience where they're presented with a confusing permissions popup every time they launch your app.

I'm sure there are other examples as well.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#282

Post by jug »

josefrichter wrote: post #259

I don’t understand. Current apps will run just fine, won’t they? Also beta versions of iOS and XCode have been around for months - so it’s not like you’re starting from scratch today. And it’s not like you absolutely must release tomorrow, do you?

The problem as I understand it is that Xcode for GM was just (?) released and then you have the approval process. So they run a real risk of not having an app iOS 14 compatible at launch. It doesn’t matter if they’ve had the whole beta to test their app on and get ready if Xcode for GM was just released.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#283

Post by tick_tock_tick »

saagarjha wrote: post #266
lern_too_spel wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not seen these things abused yet. The user agent prevents it.

I really have no idea what you mean by your comment, but humorously enough user agents are frequently one of the most widely abused parts of the browser.

The "User Agent" is the browser itself the header just how a "User Agent" identifies itself to the server. That language really only shows up in the RFCs though.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#284

Post by zepto »

Can someone explain what the actual problem is?

I’ve been using the betas and all of my existing apps work fine.

I’m developing for ios14, and don’t see any particular reason for my app to be out today.

What actual adverse effects are there to this?

Is there a class of app that runs on ios13 but is broken on ios14?

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#285

Post by [deleted] »

Heliosmaster wrote: post #279
brunoluiz wrote: post #272

Considering all the bad press Apple is having with devs at the moment (from Spotify and EPIC, to this), I wonder how these behaviours haven’t back-fired yet. At the end of the day, a platform without apps or developers dies (Windows Phone users say hi). If devs get so mad at some point and stop pushing new apps or updates, I wonder if Apple would change their position. Of course, I suppose this is still hard because…

many developers have really no choice (at least not individually). They don't really have the means to vote with their wallets, as foregoing the whole iOS market is.. not a choice. What EPIC is doing is trying to rally people on their side of the fight. This is the same reason why people (workers) have unions, in the traditional job market. It's not really comparable because developers are not workers, but there are…

[deleted]

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#286

Post by esperent »

josefrichter wrote: post #278
izacus wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely no guarantee current apps will run fine - Apple regularly adds new restrictions and API changes which break existing apps. They also tend to add a lot of new bugs every release which need to be worked around.

Has Apple ever added a major breaking change one day before release of new iOS version?

Why does one day matter? Even if it was a month it's unlikely every single app developer could get a fix in time.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#287

Post by JonathonW »

xvolter wrote: post #264

Maybe I am missing something, but iOS 14 has had beta versions out for developers for months; I had been running iOS14 and Big Sur for testing for weeks. Apple has always had developer previews and at some point, when mostly stable, they often release public previews to get a few interested users involved in testing as well. They've been working with developers for a long time on the new App Clips functionality and t…

Past major iOS releases have usually given about a week between the release of the final build to developers (with app submissions opening at the same time) and the release to the general public. This gives developers time to validate their code against the final build of iOS and submit updates if needed, allowing plenty of time for App Review to do their thing. This is also the first point where Apple will accept app updates which take advantage of new features in the new iOS release, so giving devs some notice to finalize those updates is nice as well.

Yes, developers should have already been working with the iOS betas and already have some confidence that things will work against the final release-- but there is no substitute for actually testing against the final release build. In this case, iOS 14 Beta 8 appears to be mostly identical to the GM Seed build (what released to devs yesterday, and what will release to the public today), but that, historically, has not always been the case-- in some cases, bugs get fixed in between the last beta build and the GM seed; in others, new bugs get introduced.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#288

Post by zepto »

selykg wrote: post #277
xvolter wrote: post #264

Maybe I am missing something, but iOS 14 has had beta versions out for developers for months; I had been running iOS14 and Big Sur for testing for weeks. Apple has always had developer previews and at some point, when mostly stable, they often release public previews to get a few interested users involved in testing as well. They've been working with developers for a long time on the new App Clips functionality and t…

It's more being prepared to ship their product. Usually there's a period of time between announcement and when it ships, such that a developer can get the release version of Xcode (if necessary), do some final testing, then send any updates to Apple for review. With enough lead time that their updated app can be available on the App Store the same day as the iOS update being available. That isn't really possible this…

What’s the downside of the update not being in the store today vs next week?

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#289

Post by zepto »

Heliosmaster wrote: post #279
brunoluiz wrote: post #272

Considering all the bad press Apple is having with devs at the moment (from Spotify and EPIC, to this), I wonder how these behaviours haven’t back-fired yet. At the end of the day, a platform without apps or developers dies (Windows Phone users say hi). If devs get so mad at some point and stop pushing new apps or updates, I wonder if Apple would change their position. Of course, I suppose this is still hard because…

many developers have really no choice (at least not individually). They don't really have the means to vote with their wallets, as foregoing the whole iOS market is.. not a choice. What EPIC is doing is trying to rally people on their side of the fight. This is the same reason why people (workers) have unions, in the traditional job market. It's not really comparable because developers are not workers, but there are…

Epic doesn’t care about anything except for their own profits.

Re: Why is Apple acting like an asshole?

#290

Post by scarface74 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #252
scarface74 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’d say a lot Yet you didn’t name any. If that were the case, you should be able to name the equivalent web apps on Android that must be apps on iOS. > Software is not suddenly without value just because it doesn’t make money. So where are those “valuable” web apps on Android? Also revenue is the most objective way to measure value.

> Yet you didn’t name any. Reddit, Trello, Twitter. Probably Discord and Slack too. I haven't used Android in years but I certainly don't see why these wouldn't work as web apps if you had push notifications. All the functionality is there.

And none of those companies thought the web app was good enough to eschew native apps on Android. Why is that?
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