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Resignation Letter

bariweiss.com

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Re: Resignation Letter

#281

Post by tomcam »

slg wrote: post #207
tomcam wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She doesn't want free speech. She wants consequence free speech. She wants her detractors silenced by the law Not sure we read the same letter. Can you support these assertions based on the text?

I thought that was clear from my previous comment, so I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it. She used the term "unlawful discrimination". She wants this behavior to stop. She is calling this behavior out as illegal. I don't think it is a leap to think that she wants this behavior that she is against and called illegal to be stopped by the law.

> I don't think it is a leap to think that she wants this behavior that she is against and called illegal to be stopped by the law.

I’m not sure your mind reading skills are quite up to the job you’ve assigned yourself...

Re: Resignation Letter

#282

Post by banads »

api wrote: post #214
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't take them too seriously until I see an alternative that does the work of collective discovery. There is an alternative. It is you and I. The citizen journalist will become the arbiter of truth tomorrow. And that arbitration will be decided on rationality. There will be no more credentialism and gatekeeping. That is why the traditional media companies are scared shitless.

> There is an alternative. It is you and I. How do I tell the difference between an honest citizen journalist, a propagandist, a liar, a lunatic, or a troll? Conventional journalism of course is not perfectly trustworthy, but at least there is some penalty for extreme untrustworthiness in the form of loss of reputation of the paper and its brand. The NYT is an illustrative case. My opinion of that paper dropped signi…

>How do I tell the difference between an honest citizen journalist, a propagandist, a liar, a lunatic, or a troll?

Critical thinking skills, independent research, and open dialogue

Re: Resignation Letter

#283

Post by phcordner »

Flare out at the NYT crying "free speech" and spend the rest of your career cashing five figure checks from speaking gigs at the Skull Shape Heterodoxy conference. Pretty nice work if you can get it.

Re: Resignation Letter

#284

Post by rbecker »

jrumbut wrote: post #153
mikece wrote: post #3

"Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at [the New York Times]: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else." This is a very key point, and what are the consequences of "informing everyone of a truth" that doesn't accurately reflect -- of even contradicts! -- reality? Harm to the reput…

They have 1,600 journalists last year that were sent to 150 countries [1]. What other organization is doing anything like that effort to gather facts around the world? Who is doing more collective discovery (and making it accessible to the public at a price an average person can afford)? I can only think of a handful of organizations that are serious candidates (Reuters? The BBC? Wikipedia?). Weird puff pieces, drama…

Even ten times that many journalists will do you no good, when what they report is filtered according to some pre-concieved view of the world (or the journalists themselves are only hired if they share that view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nBx-37c3c8 ).

Re: Resignation Letter

#285

Post by banads »

jrumbut wrote: post #153
mikece wrote: post #3

"Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at [the New York Times]: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else." This is a very key point, and what are the consequences of "informing everyone of a truth" that doesn't accurately reflect -- of even contradicts! -- reality? Harm to the reput…

They have 1,600 journalists last year that were sent to 150 countries [1]. What other organization is doing anything like that effort to gather facts around the world? Who is doing more collective discovery (and making it accessible to the public at a price an average person can afford)? I can only think of a handful of organizations that are serious candidates (Reuters? The BBC? Wikipedia?). Weird puff pieces, drama…

>alternative that does the work of collective discovery.

The library

Re: Resignation Letter

#286

Post by istjohn »

elicash wrote: post #84
mikece wrote: post #39

"And so self-censorship has become the norm." This might be the most ironic and most dangerous effect of this "right think" regime: that the free expression and exchange of ideas is thwarted in advance because one doesn't want to deal with drama, fight, or insults that come with saying something not in lock-step with the prevailing group-think. This blunts the curiosity of the intellect and silences all true disciple…

There's little evidence this is the case. This post could be summarized in one sentence: Bari Weiss wanted people fired because they called her names and the NYT refused, so she quit and threatened legal action.

I support the Harper's letter and sympathise with many of Weiss' criticisms, but I agree that she flirts with cancel culture territory herself with her language about a hostile work environment. Do you want robust debate or not?

Re: Resignation Letter

#287

Post by kyuudou »

mikece wrote: post #146
seppin wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I might be misremembering but I thought her appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast was cited by some as her making a fool of herself while trying to answer an honestly curious question by Joe (and I'm pretty sure she's been on since and will almost certainly be making a visit again soon as she's "news hot" right now which is the best time for an interview). As for the future of media, I wonder if long-form podcasting wh…

>I might be misremembering but I thought her appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast was cited by some as her making a fool of herself while trying to answer an honestly curious question by Joe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpurFfcSNfU

She called Tulsi Gabbard, an active Army National Guard major, an "Assad toadie" then had difficulty recalling what exactly a "toadie" is.

Re: Resignation Letter

#288

Post by acituan »

jrumbut wrote: post #153
mikece wrote: post #3

"Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at [the New York Times]: that truth isn't a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else." This is a very key point, and what are the consequences of "informing everyone of a truth" that doesn't accurately reflect -- of even contradicts! -- reality? Harm to the reput…

They have 1,600 journalists last year that were sent to 150 countries [1]. What other organization is doing anything like that effort to gather facts around the world? Who is doing more collective discovery (and making it accessible to the public at a price an average person can afford)? I can only think of a handful of organizations that are serious candidates (Reuters? The BBC? Wikipedia?). Weird puff pieces, drama…

> They have 1,600 journalists last year that were sent to 150 countries ... to gather facts around the world

Journalism is not our fact gathering apparatus. It is our sense making and relevance deciding apparatus based on those facts.

If we don't have good journalists providing those functions, we are left with the ersatz, AI based versions to decide what to pay attention to; twitter's, youtube's recommendation algorithms, google's ranking algorithms etc. None of which is good at saying "this is the most important thing we should pay attention right now as a society", "this is how you should approach this complex topic". Algorithms only serve one god and that is the god of engagement. But the amount of engagement they drive doesn't match their performance in affording us an ability to make sense of our world.

This is precisely what Weiss criticizes, that crucial human wisdom function is now subjugated by what those algorithms promote to be relevant; twitter being the worst offender. This makes us collectively foolish, and we see the results in our society with our inability to cohere and dialog as adults. Our collective intelligence approximates that of a tantrum throwing child, because our most used discourse engine that is twitter can only sustain that level of sophistication.

Re: Resignation Letter

#290

Post by cs702 »

mturmon wrote: post #236
cs702 wrote: post #40

I hesitated before upvoting the OP, and even considered flagging it, given its controversial author (with whom I disagree) and its potential to fuel ideologically driven, opinionated arguments (in which no one wins and everyone loses). However, I decided to upvote the OP because I feel it is, in the end, about a topic that is of utmost interest of -- and widely considered important by -- most people on HN: free speec…

I think your first impulse was the right one ... ;-) In general, HN threads fail on pure politics topics. (Sorry, friends, for the scold, but it's true.) We don't have enough people who have expertise on politics and media. Add this to a fact-free piece like OP, and you get blech. The current administration and its cheerleaders have figured out how to turn trolling into a weapon, leaving the NYT befuddled as its mode…

After looking at some of the comments on this page, I'm now wondering if not flagging the OP was a mistake ... ;-)

Thanks for the link to Rosen's page; I'll take a look.

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